D&D 5E The Overwhelming Dominance of D&D is Bad for Everyone...

[Aldarc]

Time will tell of course, but I think you overestimate how many people will care. These forums are a bit of an echo chamber of people that care about this kind of stuff, IMHO most people that play D&D do not. Will a small percentage quit in rage? Sure. D&D can afford to lose that 5% and still be the biggest game around by far.

All assuming of course that the draft copy we have is accurate and legally enforceable of course.

I'll believe it when I see it. People in our hobby can be quick to forgive and quicker to forget. People are fairly eager to find excuses to jump back to consume D&D. It was very similar to all the controversy at Blizzard, and despite all the people proclaiming that they would rage quit WoW or other Blizzard games due to their controversies, people ran right back once their newest release was out. Our love for consumption often overrides our long-term principles.

 

[Oofta]

I'll believe it when I see it. People in our hobby can be quick to forgive and quicker to forget. People are fairly eager to find excuses to jump back to consume D&D. It was very similar to all the controversy at Blizzard, and despite all the people proclaiming that they would rage quit WoW or other Blizzard games due to their controversies, people ran right back once their newest release was out. Our love for consumption often overrides our long-term principles.

I realize it's probably not the popular thing to say on this forum, but I don't foresee not playing D&D or buying new products if they interest me. I don't agree with the ethics of what they may be doing but it simply doesn't rise to the level of digging up shiny rocks to fund war atrocities (we didn't get a diamond ring when married because of this, and related issues) or using child labor in sweatshops level of outrage.

The silver lining, even if I don't plan on switching, is that we may see D&D getting some real competition in game structure and rules. Why develop a different system that may be technically better if you can just grab onto the OGL coattails and have a better chance of making money? Creating a new system is risky, even if the potential reward could be better if you're lucky. Maybe we'll see something like the open software movement where the people that come up with new standards are not the 800 pound gorilla in the room.

I suspect that in a year most people will have forgotten all about this.

 

[dbolack]

I happen to think D&D doesn't actually have lore or worldbuilding with mass appeal, and that in a market already exposed to prestige fantasy properties like House of the Dragon and even Rings of Power, anything uniquely and distinctly D&D will come across goofy and cartoonish.

If it comes across as a live-action Anime OVA or non-Grim Videogame, it'll be fine. But yes. This is about establishing the traditional media side of the brand ( for the 4th? 5th? time ) and maybe it sticks.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

As a pretty eclectic player interested in trying and playing all sorts of systems, I do think D&D (especially 5.0e--RIP) has a certain magic to it.

The rules have some rough edges, but the relative efficiency provided by the interaction of complexity with design goal is pretty high. In other words, if you like the level of complexity, the 5.0e D&D provides its intended experience efficiently. If you prefer more (or less) complexity, or you don't like the intended experience (like my friend who hates how much he feels they nerfed casters), or you just don't like class/level systems (like me, despite my liking 5e), you may not care for it, but other than some rough edges I think that is more about preference than quality.

D&D IP is also distinctive, expansive, and to me--wondrous. The reason I had a hard time staying away from D&D permanently when I gave up over the (actually) clumsy system back in 2e, is because of the Quasi-elemental Plane of Lightning, the City of Brass, the triad of Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, and Dragonlance, the Phlogiston, 3rd level spells, beholders and displacer beasts. No one has/had all of that, because it's real IP, and I love it as much as any Star Wars expanded universe or Marvel fan.

I agree with the original premise that it's not good for the market (or for D&D!) for it to have such a stranglehold on the industry. I agree that some of major reasons for its popularity are unrelated to its quality. I do not agree that its popularity is in spite of low quality.

What you are saying here is often overlooked in discussions about the appeal of the game.

A big oversight. And frankly, it gets missed when we talk about Gygax and Arneson. Sure they pulled from different places and the “idea” of roleplaying in a war game is novel.

But I am always amazed at the world and beasts and assumptions about it all that was also created. Whether undead, the named demons and devils, the sorts of elves, whatever…

When I look at a new game that deviates I always think of the D&D creations as the cool name brand baseline. Which we modify, hack and torture…but the beholder and the drow and Mordenkainen are D&D fantasy rpg baseline for me.

 

[MGibster]

I realize it's probably not the popular thing to say on this forum, but I don't foresee not playing D&D or buying new products if they interest me. I don't agree with the ethics of what they may be doing but it simply doesn't rise to the level of digging up shiny rocks to fund war atrocities (we didn't get a diamond ring when married because of this, and related issues) or using child labor in sweatshops level of outrage.

I'm in the same boat. I'm far more concerned with what WotC is going to do wring more money out of D&D. If make a big push to "encourage" us always be connected via apps or something similiar in an effort to make us subscribers I will likely move away from D&D in its entirety. I'm not so keen on what WotC is doing with the OGL, but I don't have many strong feelings about it.

 

[MichaelSomething]

I've been saving a tweet for just this occasion.

 

[Zardnaar]

I've been saving a tweet for just this occasion.

Indie developers are indie for a reason.

 

[MGibster]

I've been saving a tweet for just this occasion.

We've heard it said many times before, developers produce for 5E because that's where the money is at.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I think the draft OGL is a mistake. I doubt most people playing D&D will care.

I think that's true, but let's be real, "most" is essentially any number over 50% even in a binary situation.

Even if 10% of players actually care, that's a huge loss to WotC, and potentially a big gain for other RPGs out there. And think that this may well be more than 10%.

Also I'd note that one big thing here which won't have immediate effects but will have longer-term ones is causing people who are playing D&D without making a choice to, just because it's what's being played, to think about and learn about other RPGs, other options, and so on. Once that process has started, and it already did, you're going to get people getting curious in future, and that's quite likely to move us towards a more 1990s-like situation over time.

 

[Zardnaar]

I think that's true, but let's be real, "most" is essentially any number over 50% even in a binary situation.

Even if 10% of players actually care, that's a huge loss to WotC, and potentially a big gain for other RPGs out there. And think that this may well be more than 10%.

Also I'd note that one big thing here which won't have immediate effects but will have longer-term ones is causing people who are playing D&D without making a choice to, just because it's what's being played, to think about and learn about other RPGs, other options, and so on. Once that process has started, and it already did, you're going to get people getting curious in future, and that's quite likely to move us towards a more 1990s-like situation over time.

Well it also depends on what 10% you get.

We know there's a DM shortage and whales buy more product than casuals.