The Paladin "Super Class" - Design Issues

[Herremann the Wise]

Hi Everyone,

One of the games I have been playing in since 3rd Ed. came out involves a Paladin - he is currently 12th level and progressing - all be it slowly.
The DM has suggested the creation of a Paladin "Super Class" a la the Archmage or Heirophant. The Divine Champion prestige class was pointed out [from FR source book] but both of us believe it does not encapsulate the depth of Duty, Leadership and Valor intrinsic in the Paladin Lord - the draft title I have chosen for this class.

I prefer the idea of Five Levels but where as the Archmage has High Arcana and Heirophant has Special Abilities, the Paladin lord should have Higher Devotions or something similar. These Higher Devotions would emphasize the tenets I mentioned above: Duty, Leadership and Valor.

However, if anyone has any suggestions of something they have created or would just like to chip in with some good ideas, I'll give thanks in advance.

Remember though that I'm trying to create something balanced, not some min maxed monstrosity.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

PS:
Here's a rough idea of what I'm working on at the moment:

Paladin Lord

The Paladin Lord is seen as a paragon of his or her faith. Their loyalty and devotion is beyond question and they are seen by their peers as specially chosen by their Deities as the leader of leaders. In particular, they are a model of Duty, Leadership and Valor.

Hit Die: d10

Requirements
To qualify to become a Paladin Lord, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Class: Must have at least 10 levels in Paladin
Base Attack Bonus: +12
Skills: Knowledge (Religion) 10 Ranks, Diplomacy 15 Ranks, Ride 15 Ranks
Feats: Leadership, Mounted Combat, Weapon Focus (Deities Favored Weapon)
Special: The Paladin must have in excess of 35 Followers as well as a Cohort and/or Special Mount. That is they must have a leadership score of 18 or higher and have attracted these NPC’s to their cause. In addition, the Paladin must be the Head of a particular religious establishment. This can be done by establishing a new Chapterhouse, Temple or Church for their Deity or by completing a specially chosen quest that promotes them into this position in an already recognized establishment. In some cases where there is more than one Paladin Lord in a larger establishment, Ascension to the Churches upper hierarchy may be sufficient.

Class Skills
The Paladin Lord’s Class Skills (and the key ability for each skill) are:
As per Paladin
Skill Points at each level: 2 + Int modifier.

Class Features
All the following are class features of the Paladin Lord prestige class:
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Paladin Lord’s are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with all types of armor, and with shields.
Higher Duty: The role of Paladin Lord is one bound by the tenets of Duty, Leadership and Valor. This ability represents the obligations a Paladin must make to both their deity and their order to maintain their role as Paladin Lord. If at any stage, a Paladin Lord commits an evil act, he or she loses all special abilities of the Paladin Lord prestige class. This is irreversible, regardless of any latter atonement. Levels in Paladin Lord in such a situation are considered normal levels of Paladin as long as atonement is made.
In addition, the Paladin Lord must adhere to the following:
- At least half of any treasure gained from questing or adventuring must be given to the church. In some cases, this proportion is much higher. The level expected is usually based upon tradition.
- The Paladin Lord is a paragon of their faith’s code. If they violate this code willingly or accidentally, they immediately lose all benefits of the Paladin Lord prestige class and are considered simply a Paladin of equal level. This cannot be atoned for. Only their Deities intercession may bring back any lost levels.

Higher Devotion: A Paladin Lord chooses a Higher Devotion at each level of Paladin Lord. Each Higher Devotion gives both a benefit as well as an obligation. In some cases, this obligation may involve a quest or action that must be completed before the benefit is given.

- ??? This is what I'm in the process of trying to create - any suggestions welcome. Remember, there must be both a benefit and an obligation involved with each.

Level BAB Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special Spells per Day
1 +1 +2 +0 +2 Higher Duty, Higher Devotion +1 level of existing Paladin Class
2 +2 +3 +0 +3 Higher Devotion +1 level of existing Paladin Class
3 +3 +3 +1 +3 Higher Devotion +1 level of existing Paladin Class
4 +4 +4 +1 +4 Higher Devotion +1 level of existing Paladin Class
5 +5 +4 +1 +4 Higher Devotion +1 level of existing Paladin Class

 

[Hypersmurf]

Moved to House Rules.

-Hyp.
(Moderator)

 

[Crothian]

One of the Higher devotions could add a bonus to the leasdership score. THis would make the leadership feat a prerequite to the class. Another could crant a smite bonus or more times perday.

 

[FireLance]

How about the following:

Unswerving Loyalty - the Paladin Lord is immune to any mind-affecting charm or compulsion effect that would make him neglect or abandon his duty.

Inspire - as a standard action, a Paladin Lord may grant an ally (but not himself) a morale bonus equal to his Charisma bonus on any attack roll, saving throw, skill check or ability check. The ally must be able to hear the Paladin Lord in order to benefit from this ability.

Aura of Valor - The Paladin Lord's Aura of Courage also grants a +1 morale bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls. The Paladin Lord also benefits from this.

Touch of Healing - The Paladin Lord may expend one use of his Remove Disease spell-like ability to create any of the following effects: Neutralize Poison, Remove Blindness/Deafness, Remove Paralysis or Restoration.

 

[Derulbaskul]

We're working on some ideas over at the Midnight fansite along these lines. Feel free to check it out here: http://www.againsttheshadow.org/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=924

We're going the Legendary Class route, some slightly different mechanics to a normal PrC, but I'm sure you will find some ideas there.

 

[HarryFlashman]

Just an idea but in 2nd Edition D&D a Paladin of a certain level wielding a "holy sword" ( a Special classification of intelligent weapons in 2nd ed) gained powers that would be translated at MR and extra "aura" powers.

Duty:
Oathsworn: The Paladin Lord can swear and oath to perform X. In the course of carrying out that oath the Paladin is granted +1 cicumstance bonues to all Skill Checks (this is based off of the Dark Sun Dwarf ability). The oath must be of sufficient value (ie no bonus is awrded for swearing to win the heart of yon mainden, but swearing to kill the Dragonthat has been the scourge of the Dale would be)

Valour:
Blood of the Martyrs: When a Paladin Lord leads the charge to battle all Followers or Allies are granted a +1 morale bonus to BABs

Leadership:
Rally round the /holy symbol/: the Paladin Lord May perform Lay on Hands for all allies within a 20 foot radius.

 

[drnuncheon]

Just something to consider: while the archmage and the heirophant both get some pretty cool things for their levels, they also pay a heavy price - the heirophant gives up caster progression and the archmage gives up spell slots.

The Paladin Lord as presented here, by contrast, doesn't seem to give up much of anything in terms of class abilities - in fact, he gets better saves than a regular paladin. The only thing that really fits the bill is the treasure requirement, and that needs a lot of explanation. Does that include just adventuring gear? Does it include the assets of the order? What's to stop him from donating all of his wealth to the order he's head of and just using it like normal?

Here's a suggestion: for each Higher Devotion, a paladin must take a vow or oath. You could have several example vows - take examples from Monte Cook's Book of Hallowed Might or WOTC's Book of Exalted Deeds. If the vow is broken, the power goes away.

That also gives the DM leeway to punish the character for transgressions without causing the loss of all his powers - if you've got a mechanic like that you have a choice between doing nothing or bringing out the sledgehammer when sometimes a simple smack upside the head is what is called for.

J

 

[Darklone]

Eeks, what? The archmage gives up spell slots??? *going to check*

Edit: Duh right, THESE spellslots...

 

[Herremann the Wise]

Just something to consider: while the archmage and the heirophant both get some pretty cool things for their levels, they also pay a heavy price - the heirophant gives up caster progression and the archmage gives up spell slots.

The Paladin Lord as presented here, by contrast, doesn't seem to give up much of anything in terms of class abilities - in fact, he gets better saves than a regular paladin. The only thing that really fits the bill is the treasure requirement, and that needs a lot of explanation. Does that include just adventuring gear? Does it include the assets of the order? What's to stop him from donating all of his wealth to the order he's head of and just using it like normal?

Here's a suggestion: for each Higher Devotion, a paladin must take a vow or oath. You could have several example vows - take examples from Monte Cook's Book of Hallowed Might or WOTC's Book of Exalted Deeds. If the vow is broken, the power goes away.

That also gives the DM leeway to punish the character for transgressions without causing the loss of all his powers - if you've got a mechanic like that you have a choice between doing nothing or bringing out the sledgehammer when sometimes a simple smack upside the head is what is called for.

J

Hi there,

On first sight, the only downside seems to be having to give half of treasure to the order. However, you are also giving up furthering your lay on hands, smites and remove diseases as well as advancement of your special mount. The fact that you can also lose all that you have worked for in an instant of rash thinking is also a downside (this is over and above that of the normal Paladin, although both cannot commit an act of evil without severe consequences).

I see some of the Higher Devotions more than making up for this though. I was thinking of some of these Higher Devotions being based around the predominant features of the class and giving them a lift. However, as I have said and as you have suggested, there should be some form of obligation that goes with each benefit. I like this being in the form of an Oath or Vow but at the same time, specific quests or duties are also apt, it all depends upon what the focus of the Paladin and his or her order is.

Anyway, I suppose what I'm trying to do is work within WOTC's framework rather than other sources so the Higher Devotions will normally be some already printed feat. We play a fairly "basic" sort of game and so the DM will certainly not go for anything Hyperpowered.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise