D&D 5E The Printers Can't Handle WotC's One D&D Print Runs!

One of the reasons why the three new core rulebooks next year will not be released together is because D&D is such a juggernaut that the printers can't actually handle the size of the print runs!

Jeremy Crawford told Polygon "Our print runs are pretty darn big and printers are telling us you can’t give us these three books at the same time.” And Chris Perkins added that "The print runs we’re talking about are massive. That’s been not only true of the core books, but also Tasha’s Cauldron. It’s what we call a high-end problem."

 

[Bedrockgames]

yes, certainly, the question is by how much. I didn’t mean to say gas prices have no effect on book prices, but it is a rather diminished one compared to the actual increase of the gas price


shipping costs have gone down significantly since

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Global shipping costs are returning to pre-pandemic levels

But a wave of covid-19 cases in China threatens to disrupt global supply chains once more

www.economist.com

Assuming this is accurate that is a good sign. The last time I looked into it was when I released a book last year. But my hope is, and one reason I think we should not just assume that books need a steady increase in cover price, is things might start to return to normal price levels (anyone who has been the store lately knows the frustration of items climbing up in cost)

 

[MichaelSomething]

If you're looking for lower prices, I bet there plenty of other TTRPGs out there that will give you a better bang for your buck!

How about Pathfinder 1E pocket guides?

 

[GrahamWills]

And I'm sorry, but you'd be hard pressed to make a convincing argument about how a game where you pretend to be an elf won't always be considered a luxury item.

Slight quibble here. It's definitely a discretionary item, as it is not necessary to maintain a lifestyle. But "luxury", although there is not as clear a definition, has connotations that it is "excessive" (from the latin root) and has a high price. Typically a luxury item is scarce. If the demand for it increases when the price increases, you know you have a successful luxury good!

I'd argue that the roleplaying games most of us play are non-luxury discretionary items. Typical costs of play are cents per dollar-hour. On the other hand, I have also payed $25 to play in a game run by a master GM; that could be considered a luxury item. This fits in my definition of a luxury item. But in general, the default way of playing seems economical rather than luxury to me.

 

[Parmandur]

Slight quibble here. It's definitely a discretionary item, as it is not necessary to maintain a lifestyle. But "luxury", although there is not as clear a definition, has connotations that it is "excessive" (from the latin root) and has a high price. Typically a luxury item is scarce. If the demand for it increases when the price increases, you know you have a successful luxury good!

I'd argue that the roleplaying games most of us play are non-luxury discretionary items. Typical costs of play are cents per dollar-hour. On the other hand, I have also payed $25 to play in a game run by a master GM; that could be considered a luxury item. This fits in my definition of a luxury item. But in general, the default way of playing seems economical rather than luxury to me.

Luxury and necessity goods have definitions in economics, and tabletop games definitely fall under the definition of luxury items, even if they are cheap: theybare an item where demand increases faster than income as income increases, and demand falls faster than income if income decreases.

 

[Velderan]

Slight quibble here. It's definitely a discretionary item, as it is not necessary to maintain a lifestyle. But "luxury", although there is not as clear a definition, has connotations that it is "excessive" (from the latin root) and has a high price. Typically a luxury item is scarce. If the demand for it increases when the price increases, you know you have a successful luxury good!

I'd argue that the roleplaying games most of us play are non-luxury discretionary items. Typical costs of play are cents per dollar-hour. On the other hand, I have also payed $25 to play in a game run by a master GM; that could be considered a luxury item. This fits in my definition of a luxury item. But in general, the default way of playing seems economical rather than luxury to me.

There's plenty of subjectiveness in what you're saying there. A $60 192 page hardcover book is expensive when you compare it to other hardcover books. The current top hardcover book listed in the best seller section on Barnes and Noble is $29.99 for a 528 page book. Additionally with the rise of cheaper digital ways to play TTRPGs, the books are becoming more and more of a luxury collector's piece to display on a bookshelf.

 

[Clint_L]

There's plenty of subjectiveness in what you're saying there. A $60 192 page hardcover book is expensive when you compare it to other hardcover books. The current top hardcover book listed in the best seller section on Barnes and Noble is $29.99 for a 528 page book. Additionally with the rise of cheaper digital ways to play TTRPGs, the books are becoming more and more of a luxury collector's piece to display on a bookshelf.

That's a novel, not a heavily illustrated, large-sized rule book. Apples and oranges.

 

[codo]

That's a novel, not a heavily illustrated, large-sized rule book. Apples and oranges.

Look at the going rate for text books. I'm not actually sure what they cost now, but I was paying $100+ while I was in college, and that was over twenty years ago. I shudder to think what kids are being charged today.

 

[Velderan]

That's a novel, not a heavily illustrated, large-sized rule book. Apples and oranges.

That's fair, not really a fair comparison. It's still fair to say what's expensive is completely subjective.

 

[Mistwell]

So I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that you're older. One of the issues that older people have (for real!) and the reason that people have this caricature of older people being "cheap" that is also true is that older people have had decades of being used to prices at a certain point. In effect, we have been "anchored" to those prices. So even when we can intellectually understand that prices do change, it's still hard to emotionally understand that prices mean something different now.

If you look back at this post, you can see that the prices aren't actually different in terms of inflation, and that prices have always tended to hover in the $50-$60 price range for a core book. In fact, this price point will be less that the 2014 price point.

So when you say it is too expensive, it is, in fact, less expensive than when it was released in 2014. Again, I understand how it feels emotionally ... but that's not what is happening.

Typically this gets "Inflation has gone up but wages have not kept up." Except...household income also went up since 2014 at a pace which is at or faster than this new price point as well (though it took a dip in 2020 of course).

 

[GrahamWills]

There's plenty of subjectiveness in what you're saying there. A $60 192 page hardcover book is expensive when you compare it to other hardcover books. The current top hardcover book listed in the best seller section on Barnes and Noble is $29.99 for a 528 page book. Additionally with the rise of cheaper digital ways to play TTRPGs, the books are becoming more and more of a luxury collector's piece to display on a bookshelf.

The 528 page book will take me about 10 hours to read, making its cost $3/hour. Assuming i play a year of an rpg before moving on to a new game, playing every two weeks for 3 hours, with gaps, that’s about 120 hours, for a total of about 55 cents an hour.

 

[Velderan]

The 528 page book will take me about 10 hours to read, making its cost $3/hour. Assuming i play a year of an rpg before moving on to a new game, playing every two weeks for 3 hours, with gaps, that’s about 120 hours, for a total of about 55 cents an hour.

So we're in agreement that TTRPG could cost $100 and still be a fantastic value?

 

[Micah Sweet]

So we're in agreement that TTRPG could cost $100 and still be a fantastic value?

Important to remember here that you're not paying $3 or 55 cents an hour, or a day, or a week. You're paying the full price ($60 or $80 or $100) right now. No one buys RPG books on the installment plan. You have to be willing to pay the entire cost all at once, and hope that you spend enough time with the purchase for it to be worth it.

 

[Velderan]

Important to remember here that you're not paying $3 or 55 cents an hour, or a day, or a week. You're paying the full price ($60 or $80 or $100) right now. No one buys RPG books on the installment plan. You have to be willing to pay the entire cost all at once, and hope that you spend enough time with the purchase for it to be worth it.

No one buys RPG books on the installment plan?

Googles US credit card debt

We're going to have to agree to disagree here.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Important to remember here that you're not paying $3 or 55 cents an hour, or a day, or a week. You're paying the full price ($60 or $80 or $100) right now. No one buys RPG books on the installment plan. You have to be willing to pay the entire cost all at once, and hope that you spend enough time with the purchase for it to be worth it.

You can make anything seem affordable if you find the hourly or daily cost that makes it pocket change or the classic route of "for just the cost of a cup of coffee"

 

[Micah Sweet]

No one buys RPG books on the installment plan?

Googles US credit card debt

We're going to have to agree to disagree here.

Fair enough. I don't own a credit card.

 

[Velderan]

You can make anything seem affordable if you find the hourly or daily cost that makes it pocket change or the classic route of "for just the cost of a cup of coffee"

Which the last one is a non-starter for me because it implies I give up coffee to pay for the other thing. You might as well ask me to stop breathing.

 

[Velderan]

Fair enough. I don't own a credit card.

They're good if you're disciplined and don't carry a balance. It's generally safer to shop online with a credit card than a debit card and most cards have a reward program in the US. But you absolutely have to have the discipline to zero the balance each month.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Which the last one is a non-starter for me because it implies I give up coffee to pay for the other thing. You might as well ask me to stop breathing.

And this was generally done before Starbucks and before coffee in general became more pricey. Now a cup of coffee could be 7 bucks depending on what you order and where

 

[Warpiglet-7]

A one time increase for a nonessential accessory is…not a big deal.

It will reduce units sold, sure. They know generally what this will mean vis a vis increased revenue per unit.

I am in no way looking down on folks that are impoverished. But if 10 bucks is going to hurt you that bad, a book with extra subclasses is not your biggest concern.

This seems to be blown way out of proportion.

 

[GrahamWills]

So we're in agreement that TTRPG could cost $100 and still be a fantastic value?

Yes, but it would Also be a luxury because it is significantly more expensive than it need be.

I have a $20 Fate book which, with the online SRD, has run a group of five people for multiple years. Fantastic value and economical.

I have a leather bound version of the 13A book, and yes, fantastic value compare to my luxury hardback novels, but also a luxury.

I have an expensive version of Dragon Age RPG which I haven’t really read properly and will never play. Poor value and a luxury.

Something can be fantastic value AND luxurious. A million dollar yacht on sale for $10000 is both, as another example.