D&D General The Problem with Evil or what if we don't use alignments?

[Cadence]

That's pretty bad. LOL I haven't read Theros much.

Didn't you say something like 95% Good and 5% Evil is still Good because it's big boxes? How much does one really bad call out of 10s of thousands over the millennia change things? (Ok, maybe more than one...)

 

[Minigiant]

That's a bad assumption to make. Companies fail that metric every day and WotC is no exception. They didn't do the research and the information doesn't come to them through the cosmos on fluttering butterfly wings, so they don't know.

I can't assume they didn't do research over them doing it.

They're chronic backstabbers because that's what Lolth made them through the lore. They were assigned the CE alignment, because that fit the lore. Remove it and they are still chronic backstabbers. Neither alignment, nor failure to teach properly are the issue there.

Lolth is Chaotic Stupid because TSR and WOTC made her a slave to her alignment.
Then then copy-pasted that idiocy on the drow.

 

[Cadence]

Lolth is Chaotic Stupid because TSR and WOTC made her a slave to her alignment.

Doesn't she have only 66 hit points too?

Corellon has 350, Rillifane Rallathil has 317, even Deep Sashelas has 300... I mean, ouch. The complete objective inferiority can't be easy to put up with over the millenia.

*All numbers 1e Deities and Demigods

 

[Mistwell]

Nevermind. Post too old to be responding to it now

 

[Maxperson]

I can't assume they didn't do research over them doing it.

With who? If they polled the public, you know, the ones who may or may not have the issue, we would have heard about it. They didn't.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

No, it reflects badly on you to forgive people's blatant ignorant racism, what you call the "limitations of ordinary people". It's vile that you forgive this. I expect people to be informed about what they can see with their own eyes. It has noting to do with the Monster Manual. People of goodwill and thoughtfulness can tell when art incorporates racism. You are the self-righteous one to forgive this. You are a bad person who thinks they are good because you forgive other bad people. No, it's bad all the way down. Stop digging.

You are making personal attacks & accusations at this.point. STOP.

 

[ccs]

No, it reflects badly on you to forgive people's blatant ignorant racism, what you call the "limitations of ordinary people". It's vile that you forgive this. I expect people to be informed about what they can see with their own eyes. It has noting to do with the Monster Manual. People of goodwill and thoughtfulness can tell when art incorporates racism. You are the self-righteous one to forgive this. You are a bad person who thinks they are good because you forgive other bad people. No, it's bad all the way down. Stop digging.

Wow are you ever a piece of work.
Have you stopped to consider that in all of your own self-righteous posturing & ranting & grandiose expecting - that you're painting children with the same brush you're trying to use on the adults?
You know, those 12 year olds & such that the Starter Boxes (Dragon of Ice Spire Peak for ex) are specifically targeted at.
You really think the kids are racists? You really expect the kids to be so informed? You really think it's vile if we forgive our children if they don't even (thankfully) realize your PoV on Racism in D&D exists?

 

[ccs]

Mecheon said:
But, to echo Minigiant on this, its not just players. Its Wizards themselves who've made faults in it, and frequently. Hell, as recently as the Theros book I complained about the alignments in that putting a god mostly known for murdering a protaginist out of fear her fame would usurp his as "Lawful Good".

That's pretty bad. LOL I haven't read Theros much.

Doesn't it say right in the Theros book that the gods etc are what the people believe made manifest?
So if the majority think whatever god Mecheon is talking about is generally the equivalent of LG, then despite this tale/deed, LG he'll be....

 

[EzekielRaiden]

I can't assume they didn't do research over them doing it.

And, honestly, isn't it fairer to them, to assume that they actually are collecting data, rather than just doing what-the-heck-ever they feel like? Like....I don't really get the line of argument presented to you here, because it feels rather the opposite of charitable to say, "Nope, assume they did things out of PURE WHIM rather than that some actual thought and data, however flawed, went into it."

Lolth is Chaotic Stupid because TSR and WOTC made her a slave to her alignment.
Then then copy-pasted that idiocy on the drow.

Completely agreed. Likewise, the description for Paladins is supposed to show that they're upstanding and considerate folks who do things very deliberately....and then (at least in 3e and earlier) it immediately launches into hard-and-fast, no-thought rules like "never willingly associates with evil individuals" (despite this being the only way to redeem them...) or whatever, I don't remember the precise wording.

Like...alignment is not supposed to be a straitjacket; the descriptions tell us that. And then the designers themselves almost immediately leap into USING it as a straitjacket, or a gotcha trap. It's just not a good look.

 

[Minigiant]

And, honestly, isn't it fairer to them, to assume that they actually are collecting data, rather than just doing what-the-heck-ever they feel like? Like....I don't really get the line of argument presented to you here, because it feels rather the opposite of charitable to say, "Nope, assume they did things out of PURE WHIM rather than that some actual thought and data, however flawed, went into it."

I am assuming that WOTC did some kind of polling for alignment before they started the deemphasis of it. Even if it is private and internal.

I have to believe poll happy WOTC is still poll happy