D&D (2024) The Problem with Healing Powercreep

[Oofta]

I cannot speak for 5e 2024, but in 2014 divine-healing is not essential to an adventuring party. Every class has the most effective healing available (resting) and in-combat healing spells are not as needed as many think. Stopping the combat quickly or other sorts of damage preventions are most of the time the better use of your resources in-combat.

Especially because we can drink potions as a bonus action now. Sure, the cost adds up but what else are the PCs going to spend their money on? If someone wants to play a cleric, more power to them! They can be interesting classes. But the current group I'm playing in (I have a paladin) doesn't have a dedicated healer. It works fine. I did take the acolyte origin feat so I have healing word for emergency ranged healing and of course I have my lay on hands (also now a bonus action), but I don't even prep cure wounds most times. Another group I'm running doesn't even have that, they just spend a lot of money on potions.

 

[dave2008]

Then color me genuinely, thoroughly shocked. I have no idea how you've managed to survive. That group 100% would have TPK'd at least once in LMoP and twice in Phandelver and Below with how things have gone for the current group I'm in where I'm the only healer (Fighter/Rogue, Monk, Barbarian, and my Celestial Warlock.) My ability to heal people at range and/or revivify has directly prevented at least two deaths thus far (and failed to prevent one other, sadly; RIP Ryven, gone before your time), and even with all that, we've been downing healing potions like fish drink water.

Question: does your group take short rests? Without magic, short rests provide a lot of healing.

 

[Micah Sweet]

We could even call it a healing surge!

Sure, if you like. 4e's proportional healing was a good idea I think (although it's taken time for me to come around to that). For me the real problem is the quick turn-around overnight, and the lack of injury. I strongly feel that once a character hits zero a subsystem to determine the extent of injury and recovery time needed for saud injury should come into play.

 

[Micah Sweet]

There is no verisimilitude for hit points. There are simply different sets of narrations to accept or reject.

For hit points itself? Not really, no. Nothing beyond what Gygax suggested way back when anyway. That's why I advocate for a healing and injury subsystem that kicks in when you drop to zero instead. Before that, proportional hit point recovery as we've been discussing is IMO the best way to go.

 

[dave2008]

Sure, if you like. 4e's proportional healing was a good idea I think (although it's taken time for me to come around to that). For me the real problem is the quick turn-around overnight, and the lack of injury. I strongly feel that once a character hits zero a subsystem to determine the extent of injury and recovery time needed for saud injury should come into play.

You can always apply the lingering injuries rule from the '14 DMG. That is precisely what it is there for.

 

[Micah Sweet]

You can always apply the lingering injuries rule from the '14 DMG. That is precisely what it is there for.

In principle I agree. In practice I use a more elaborate system when I can. The real issue is simply that most players IME don't want any real possibility of injury at all, because the core game with which they're familiar is too easy on them IMO. Any optional rules are an uphill battle because they make the PCs lives harder.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

If I were making 6e I would go back to 2e HPs, but more spread. You start with 3HD at 1st level (and how many max is based on DM and how he is setting difficulty) at 2nd level you get a set amount (1/2/3) like you did over 9th in 2e. then at 3rd you get a 4th HD, 4th is set and 5this your 5th HD... ext ext so even levels you get a set number and odd you get HD... and NO CONSTITUTION MOD... then you can spend a HD to heal if something gives you that ability (or on short rests) roll the HD and THEN add con mod to healing.

SOme features and spells heal a set amount some let you spend a HD or spend a HD with a bonus... big heals though let you heal AS IF you spent a HD.

1st level fighter with 3d10hp takeing 1 max and 2 average have 21 hps. at level 2 gets +3 for 24 at level 20 has 12d10+30 hp or 101hp and can spend up to 12HD... on long rests you regain all hp and 1/2 your HD (so that fighter regains 6HD per long rest)

Healing word spell (bounse action to cast) lets an ally who can hear you in range spend a HD and gain a bonus equal to your caster stat mod... when up cast it adds 1d4 per level above 1st and if you use a 5th or higher slot the target can spend 2 HD, if you use a 9th level spell slot (like why would you??) they also heal as if they spent the same amount they did spend up to 3 HD.

Cure wounds spell (action touch) lets ally heal as if they spent a HD with a bonus equal to your caster stat mod. At levels above 1st they heal as if they spent a number of HD equal to the spell level (but only add wis mod once) if you use a 6th or higher level slot they can count 1HD rolled (after roll) as if it came up max at 6th and 1 more HD per level above 6th so at level 9 (again why are you up casting 1st level spells with 9th slots?) they would heal as if they spent 9HD (roll 9 HD add con mod 9 times) then take 4 lowest rolls and change them to max, then add your caster stat mod.

Cure Serious Wounds spell level 3 (action touch) Target spends as many HD as they like, instead of rolling there normal HD they roll 2d8 per HD spent and they add (to each spent) your caster stat mod and there con mod. Each level above 3rd used you add 1d8 per HD spent so if you use a 9th level slot (people love upcasting to 9th???) they can spend any number of HD, and roll 8d8+there con+your caster stat per HD spent. If you use a 5th level or higher slot they can even regain HP that has lowered there maximum.

Heal spell level 6 (action touch) target heals as if he spent all of his HD, and gains a bonus to each equal to your caster stat. This also removes conditions and penalties and lowered maximums

Mass Healing Word spell level 3 a number of targets equal to the spell level used in range spend a HD and gain a bonus equal to your caster stat mod... when up cast it adds 1d4 per level above

Mass cure wounds level 5 spell a number of targets equal to spell level -1 in range heal as if they spent a HD with a bonus equal to your caster stat mod. At levels above 5th they heal as if they spent a number of HD equal to the spell level and add the caster stat mod to each. If upcast to 9th (why do we upcast, like cast your 9th level spell will yea?) you can treat 2 of those HD (after roll) as if they came up max.

Mass Cure Serious Wounds spell level 7 a number of targets equal to half the spell slot level heal as if they spent 2HD, then they can spend up to a number of HD equal to the level of the spell, each one gets there con mod like normal plus your caster stat mod. every spell level above 7th gives an extra 'as if' added to the 2HD.

Mass Heal spell level 9 a number of targets equal to the spell level heal as if they spent a HD +100 hps if that doesn't bring them to full they can then spend as many HD as they like each getting a bonus equal to your caster stat mod. This also removes conditions and penalties and lowered maximums


Second wind (fighter feature) as a bonus action heal as if you spent a HD and add your fighter level on top of your con mod. At level 11 you can ALSO actually spend a HD but that one heals 3d6 plus your con modifier instead of normal.

Lay on Hands (paladin feature) As a bonus action the paladin can spend a HD and touch themselves or an ally and heal... if they touch themselves they roll there HD with replacing there con mod with there cha mod... if they touch an ally instead of rolling the HD they roll 3d6 and add there cha to it. at level 11 the d6s increase to d8s.

Magestic Word (bard spell level 2) bonus action an ally within range can spend a HD and gain a bonus equal to your caster stat mod and your bardic inspiration die. If you up cast it every even level spell slot (4,6,8 so HA no 9th level upcast) grants a bonus d6 to the Healing, if you cast it at 5th level or higher the target can choose not to spend the HD and only get your Inspiration die +d6s

Inspiring word (theoretical warlord like ability) bonus action an ally within range can spend a HD and gain a bonus to the healing equal to half your level on top of there con bonus. Until the end of that ally's next turn if they take damage other then psychic they reduce the damage by an amount equal to your charisma modifier.

Renew the body (druid level 2 spell) action touch, an ally spends a HD and heals, then for a number of rounds equal to your caster stat mod they can as no action on the start of there turn choose to regain a number of HP equal to there con mod. When up cast each even level (see no 9th again) ally can spend another HD.

Mass Renewal (druid level 5 spell) all allies in range can spend a HD, if they do they also heal as IF they spent a HD, and for a number of rounds equal to your caster stat mod they can as no action on the start of there turn choose to regain a number of HP equal to there con mod plus your caster stat mod.

Healing spirits (Druid and Cleric) spell level 3. You summon a spirit that is in range and it gains a number of D6s equal to the spell level + your caster stat mod. You or any ally that moves through the spirit can claim 1 or more of those d6s and heal. If you or an ally start your turn adjacent to the spirit that character can spend a HD and get a bonus equal to your caster stat mod.

 

[dave2008]

In principle I agree. In practice I use a more elaborate system when I can. The real issue is simply that most players IME don't want any real possibility of injury at all, because the core game with which they're familiar is too easy on them IMO. Any optional rules are an uphill battle because they make the PCs lives harder.

Well that is a player issue not a game system issue IMO. I can't really help with that. Find a group that aligns with how you want to play?

 

[Pedantic]

Healing surges were a good mechanic. The possible verisimilitude issue is not related to the surges directly, it is related to how rapidly they recharge, which is the exact same issue that exist with the daily recovery of the HP in 5e.

Surges were probably the biggest branding mistake 4e made. Call it "healing tolerance" and write out "25% of their hit point total" each time and they'd be much better understood.

There's arguments to be had over whether players should generally go into each encounter at full HP or not, non-magical healing and the rate of overall recovery, but a strict limit on healing and proportionate spell scaling are fine.

 

[tetrasodium]

Well that is a player issue not a game system issue IMO. I can't really help with that. Find a group that aligns with how you want to play?

No it is a game issue because a lot of players(newer ones especially) have never played any ttrpg other than D&D5e and 5e does a lot to enshrine a mindset that there is no way of playing other than what @Micah Sweet described without going into some kind of deviant playstyle.

You don't need to look anywhere past the new dmg for evidence of that in the way it cuts basically all of the optional/variant rules except for a new one that makes it so PCs cannot die. Without the ability to point at a page and say "no it is a valid way of playing that can be fun & you★ are the one being unreasonable by refusing to adapt to the change then using the obvious result as ammunition in an effort to force a revision to stock".

★"you" the GM's player being addressed by the GM not any particular poster.