D&D (2024) The Problem with Healing Powercreep

[Micah Sweet]

Well that is a player issue not a game system issue IMO. I can't really help with that. Find a group that aligns with how you want to play?

My wife hates OSR. Not really an option for me.

 

[dave2008]

My wife hates OSR. Not really an option for me.

I assume you mean that style? You don't have to play OSR to get lingering injuries (and similar consequences for damage)

 

[dave2008]

No it is a game issue because a lot of players(newer ones especially) have never played any ttrpg other than D&D5e and 5e does a lot to enshrine a mindset that there is no way of playing other than what @Micah Sweet described without going into some kind of deviant playstyle.

Let me rephrase: It is not a game issue for me!

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Spending hit dice on a short rest is a lot of healing, though, getting back to why healing spells needed a boost to become more relevant.

Is it though? Like, seriously, is it?

Most characters have d8 hit dice and +1 or +2 Con mod. Let's be generous and assume +2.

So that's 10 HP at 1st level, but only getting 6.5 healing. The two never get closer together, because you gain 7 HP per level but only 6.5 average healing. Hence, even if you have all of your HD, you cannot even heal yourself fully once. The gap widens by 1 hit point every 2 levels. And if you burned through all of your HD in the previous day? Yeah good luck, now you can't even restore 50% on your own.

So if you've managed to somehow survive 15 levels while never needing more than half your total HP in healing most days, I'm genuinely shocked. I don't know how that is possible in 5.0, unless you're leaving out some other source of healing.

Question: does your group take short rests? Without magic, short rests provide a lot of healing.

Yes. Almost all of us benefit from it. If we were using full 5.5e rules (I'm the only one, very kindly granted the request by Hussar), we all would, as short rests restore rage uses in 5.5e.

It's rare for us to end the day with more than four or five HD left between us, and that's with me usually spending at least one of my two per-SR spell slots on healing and all of my Healing Light dice each day. And, don't forget, you only get back half your total hit dice with a single LR, so you can't rely on them long-term unless you have downtime days. (Thankfully, we usually do.)

 

[dave2008]

So if you've managed to somehow survive 15 levels while never needing more than half your total HP in healing most days, I'm genuinely shocked. I don't know how that is possible in 5.0, unless you're leaving out some other source of healing.

It is not uncommon to get through an adventure day with 0 healing. If the PCs never drop to 0 HP they can just get back to full HP on a long rest.

Yes. Almost all of us benefit from it. If we were using full 5.5e rules (I'm the only one, very kindly granted the request by Hussar), we all would, as short rests restore rage uses in 5.5e.

It's rare for us to end the day with more than four or five HD left between us, and that's with me usually spending at least one of my two per-SR spell slots on healing and all of my Healing Light dice each day. And, don't forget, you only get back half your total hit dice with a single LR, so you can't rely on them long-term unless you have downtime days. (Thankfully, we usually do.)

That's good to know. I guess your DM just throws much more dangerous combats at you? IDK? My group can get through several combats without healing depending on their strategy, tactics, and the opponents. They typical don't start spending HD on healing until they are below half their total.

 

[dave2008]

Is it though? Like, seriously, is it?

Yes it is. For the 15th lvl fighters in my group that is 90HP of healing. Even for the wizard it is 45 HP. That feels like a lot to me (and my players).

 

[Ashrym]

Is it though? Like, seriously, is it?

Most characters have d8 hit dice and +1 or +2 Con mod. Let's be generous and assume +2.

Yes, because your party in your example (Fighter/Rogue, Monk, Barbarian, and Celestial Warlock) looks like it averages a d10, but aside from that a party of 4 at 1st level totals 8 hit dice of healing compared to 2 spell slots on a caster. Those spell slots aren't both dedicated to healing, but if they were that's the same 4 dice of healing.

At second level the caster gains 1 more slot for 2 more dice but the party gains 4 more dice.

The number of dice available for short rest healing is the PC's*level. Yes, that's a lot.

 

[Lanefan]

Then give divine casters free casting. Never made sense to make them have to memorize the spells that their faith is supposed to be providing. Or if that is too lax, have the number of free casts per level based upon their wisdom score, such that the priest’s wisdom allows for them to have superior intuition about the necessary magic that will be needed.

I really prefer priests to free cast so that they don’t feel like heal bots. Let them have access to the rest of their utility spells and have the healing for emergency.

We gave divine casters free casting (our term is "wild card casting") ages ago.

More recently I've given arcane casters wild card casting as well (a la the 3e Sorcerer); result have been mixed but with some fine-tuning I think it'll work just fine. Note that in our games arcane casters don't get to pick and choose the spells they learn or encounter, it's more random than that until mages start swapping spells among themselves.

 

[Lanefan]

What I primarily want is non-divine healing. In a system with 12-13 classes, no one class should be essential to an adventuring party. Especially not one that has the worldbuilding requirements of the cleric.

Non-divine healing is called resting overnight.

I'd rather that more classes were essential to an adventuring party, such that choices had to be made as to which to bring along and which to exclude.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

It is not uncommon to get through an adventure day with 0 healing. If the PCs never drop to 0 HP they can just get back to full HP on a long rest.

That's good to know. I guess your DM just throws much more dangerous combats at you? IDK? My group can get through several combats without healing depending on their strategy, tactics, and the opponents. They typical don't start spending HD on healing until they are below half their total.

Nearly every combat ends with at least one person having taken that much damage in my experience. Not just with Hussar either.