D&D 5E The Sorcerer Fix

[Ilbranteloth]

You mean something like this?

It's still very much in the development/playtest stage.

You shape magic using sorcerous energies and forms. To start with you have 2 of each, and you can cast up to 1st level spells. At 20th level you'll have 6 forms and 8 energies. Even though you can cast 1st level spells, you roll on a Wild Magic Surge table to cast spells until you reach 3rd level. At that point you can safely cast 1st level spells, or up to 3rd level spells. You have about a 50% chance of a wild magic surge if the spell is not safe, with some modifiers. Sorceries only use somatic components. A spell focus reduces or eliminates the chance of wild magic.

You have spell points (in addition to sorcery points). A spell slot costs the same as the level of the spell slot (5th level spell = 5 spell points). Only 1 slot of 6th - 9th level daily when you get to that point. Regain spell points at short or long rest (11 points at 20th level).

I have the full chart, but don't know how to post that here.

Sorcery
Sorcery is a unique method to wield the Art. Instead of casting spells, a sorcerer shapes the Weave to their will.
All sorcery requires only somatic components, has a casting time of 1 action, and a duration of instantaneous.
Other sorcerous energies and forms may be possible, these are the ones available to sorcerer PCs at this time.

Energies are basically damage types. But I have a few other things.

I'm also working on things like conjurations, charm, etc. This gets far more complicated, and I also want to limit what sorcerers can do in regards to complex spells. Written spells, with more components stabilizes spellcasting and also allows for more complex effects.

Sorcerous Forms
Burst
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Self (5-foot radius sphere)
Components: S
Duration: Instantaneous
You release a burst of energy in all directions, forming a sphere with you at the center. The burst does not go around corners.
Creatures within the area must make a Dexterity saving throw. A creature that fails their saving throw takes 1d6 damage, and a creature that succeeds on their saving throw takes half that.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this sorcery using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, the radius is increased by 5-feet and the damage is increased by 1d6 per slot level above 1st.

Blast
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 5 feet
Components: S
Duration: Instantaneous
You release a blast of magical energy from your hand in the direction you indicate. The blast does not go around corners.
A creature within the area must make a Dexterity saving throw. A creature that fails their saving throw takes 1d8 damage, and a creature that succeeds on their saving throw takes half that.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this sorcery using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, the damage is increased by 1d8 per slot level above 1st.

Bolt
Prerequisite: Blast
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 120 feet (ranged attack)
Components: S
Duration: Instantaneous
You hurl a blast of energy at your target. Make a ranged spell attack at a creature within range. On a hit, the target takes 1d8 damage.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this sorcery using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, the range is increased by 10-feet and the damage is increased by 1d8 per slot level above 1st.

Cone
Prerequisite: Blast
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Self (20-foot cone)
Components: S
Duration: Instantaneous
You release a cone of magical energy from your hand in the direction you indicate.
Creatures within the area must make a Dexterity saving throw. A creature that fails their saving throw takes 1d6 damage, and a creature that succeeds on their saving throw takes half that.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this sorcery using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, the cone is increased by 10-feet and the damage is increased by 1d6 per slot level above 1st.

Cube
Prerequisite: Burst
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Self (15-foot cube)
Components: S
Duration: Instantaneous
You release a burst of magical energy in the shape of a cube. You can center the cube around you, or the cube can extend from your hands in the direction you desire.
Creatures within the area must make a Dexterity saving throw. A creature that fails their saving throw takes 1d6 damage, and a creature that succeeds on their saving throw takes half that.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this sorcery using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, the cube is increased by 10-feet and the damage is increased by 1d6 per slot level above 1st.

Cylinder
Prerequisite: Burst
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Self (5-foot radius, 40-foot high cylinder)
Components: S
Duration: Instantaneous
You release a burst of magical energy in the shape of a cylinder. You can center the cylinder around you, or the cylinder can extend from your hands in the direction you desire.
Creatures within the area must make a Dexterity saving throw. A creature that fails their saving throw takes 1d6 damage, and a creature that succeeds on their saving throw takes half that.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this sorcery using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, the cylinder is increased by 5-feet in radius and the damage is increased by 1d6 per slot level above 1st.

Ranged Burst
Prerequisite: Burst
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 30 feet
Components: S
Duration: Instantaneous
You release a burst of energy in all directions, forming a sphere with you at the center and centered on a point up to 30 feet away.
Creatures within the area must make a Dexterity saving throw. A creature that fails their saving throw takes 1d6 damage, and a creature that succeeds on their saving throw takes half that.
If you have the Cube or Cylinder form, then the shape can be one of those forms instead of a sphere.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this sorcery using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, the range is increased by 5 feet, the radius is increased by 5-feet and the damage is increased by 1d6 per slot level above 1st.

Ray
Prerequisite: Bolt, and the ability to cast 3rd level sorceries
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 120 feet
Components: S
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute
You hurl a sustained blast of energy at your target. Make a ranged spell attack at a creature within range. On a hit, the target takes 1d8 damage.
On each of your turns for the duration, you can use your action to deal 1d8 additional damage to the target automatically. You can expend additional spell points in each round to increase this damage by 1d8 per spell point spent.
The sorcery ends if you use your action to do anything else. The target creature can make a Dexterity saving throw at the start of each of its turns. A successful saving throw ends the sorcery.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this sorcery using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, the range is increased by 10-feet and the damage is increased by 1d8 per slot level above 1st.

Seeking Bolt
Prerequisite: Bolt
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 120 feet (ranged attack)
Components: S
Duration: Instantaneous
You hurl a blast of energy at your target. Make a ranged spell attack at a creature within range, even around corners. On a hit, the target takes 1d8 damage.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this sorcery using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, the range is increased by 10-feet and the damage is increased by 1d8 per slot level above 1st.

Spread
Prerequisite: Burst
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Self (5-foot radius sphere)
Components: S
Duration: Instantaneous
You release a burst of energy in all directions, forming a sphere with you at the center. The energy spreads to fill the region, including reaching around corners.
Creatures within the area must make a Dexterity saving throw. A creature that fails their saving throw takes 1d6 damage, and a creature that succeeds on their saving throw takes half that.
If you know the ranged burst form, then you can create a ranged spread.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this sorcery using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, the radius is increased by 5-feet and the damage is increased by 1d6 per slot level above 1st.

Touch
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch (melee attack)
Components: S
Duration: Instantaneous
You release a blast of magical energy from your hand or a weapon. Make a melee spell or weapon attack.
On a hit, the creature takes 1d8 damage in addition to any damage caused by the melee attack.
If an object, or a willing creature, no melee attack is required.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this sorcery using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, the damage is increased by 1d8 per slot level above 1st.

OK, I think I've figured out how I'll handle the non-energy/damage dealing sorceries. Haven't worked out all of the details yet but:

I'll leverage the Spells Known column combined with the levels that sorcerers usually gain abilities.

Spells
Starting at 1st level, your experimentation with casting spells allows you to emulate some wizard spells. Select a school of magic. You can choose a number of spells up to the number in the "Spells Known" column and cantrips column. You cast these spells as sorceries, meaning they only require somatic components, but you run the risk of a Wild Magic Surge. This risk is always present when attempting to cast spells in this way.

At 6th level, 14th level, and 18th level you can select an additional school of magic to learn spells when selecting them.

You can use concentration with these spells that allow it, including damage-causing spells, although you can only choose spells that utilize energies that you can cast. You can also use your metamagic on such spells.

This combination creates a very flexible spellcaster in regards to energy-based spells, with a narrow focus on certain schools. I might reduce the number of spells known (perhaps half).

 

[Mistwell]

I think my perfect sorcerer would have all at-will spells. As in 100% of their spells they could cast as often as they wanted. Now, from a balance perspective I doubt that works. But from a thematic perspective, how I think of sorcerers and the iconic ones in novels, they can cast whatever spells they know however often they want.

 

[MoonSong]

OK, I think I've figured out how I'll handle the non-energy/damage dealing sorceries. Haven't worked out all of the details yet but:

I'll leverage the Spells Known column combined with the levels that sorcerers usually gain abilities.

Spells
Starting at 1st level, your experimentation with casting spells allows you to emulate some wizard spells. Select a school of magic. You can choose a number of spells up to the number in the "Spells Known" column and cantrips column. You cast these spells as sorceries, meaning they only require somatic components, but you run the risk of a Wild Magic Surge. This risk is always present when attempting to cast spells in this way.

At 6th level, 14th level, and 18th level you can select an additional school of magic to learn spells when selecting them.

You can use concentration with these spells that allow it, including damage-causing spells, although you can only choose spells that utilize energies that you can cast. You can also use your metamagic on such spells.

This combination creates a very flexible spellcaster in regards to energy-based spells, with a narrow focus on certain schools. I might reduce the number of spells known (perhaps half).

But the focus on asincle school makes it feel like a wizard...

 

[Ilbranteloth]

But the focus on asincle school makes it feel like a wizard...

They get additional schools later on. But the meat of the sorcerer is that in this system they are literally making up their spells as they go. They select an attack type that they know, and which energy type and meta magic they want to use. So most of the time they are not using written spells as such.

Also, wizards are not limited to a single school, even as they are all specialists now. They just gain some benefits for their specific school.

My goal is to create a sorcerer that feels significantly different than a wizard. The idea that additional components and a written spell allows a wizard to shape magic in ways that somebody that is just channeling the magical energy can't. So most of the sorcerer's primary use is shaping that raw energy. However, there are a lot of spells that can't be broken down in that regard, and I didn't want to eliminate the possibility of them using those.

If you don't like the idea of limiting to a single school, then just allow them to pick spells from the entire sorcerer list. But because of their flexibility with shaping their own spells (and the fact that they recover spell points at a short rest in my system), I would reduce the total number of spells they know.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Two options I would consider.

1. Disciplines, from the Mystic. I've a "Sorcerer" in my Eberron game right now using the Mystic, and it feels like a Sorcerer. Replace the really psionic feeling stuff with more arcane stuff, and you've got a sorcerer.

2. The sorcerer gets lvl 1 spells, and cantrips, representing the very fundamental ways in which magic can be channelled. Each bloodline gets some bonuses, to different things, yada yada. From that base, you add the system from the Lore Wizard, and extrapolate it all the way out to a 20 level full caster progression, based entirely on the spell point system rather than slots.

Either way, the sorcerer gets X/level number of points back wth a short rest, and full recovery with a long rest.

 

[Ilbranteloth]

They get additional schools later on. But the meat of the sorcerer is that in this system they are literally making up their spells as they go. They select an attack type that they know, and which energy type and meta magic they want to use. So most of the time they are not using written spells as such.

Also, wizards are not limited to a single school, even as they are all specialists now. They just gain some benefits for their specific school.

My goal is to create a sorcerer that feels significantly different than a wizard. The idea that additional components and a written spell allows a wizard to shape magic in ways that somebody that is just channeling the magical energy can't. So most of the sorcerer's primary use is shaping that raw energy. However, there are a lot of spells that can't be broken down in that regard, and I didn't want to eliminate the possibility of them using those.

If you don't like the idea of limiting to a single school, then just allow them to pick spells from the entire sorcerer list. But because of their flexibility with shaping their own spells (and the fact that they recover spell points at a short rest in my system), I would reduce the total number of spells they know.

My initial post may not be clear.

So at 1st level, a sorcerer picks two energies (damage types), such as fire and lightning. And they select two of the forms - such as burst and blast. Those are the bread and butter of their abilities. As they gain levels, they select additional energy types, and forms.

So instead of them knowing say, burning hands. They essentially know burning hands and acid hands. As the gain in levels they can also do lightning hands and thunder hands, force handsetc.

When you break down how damaging spells are cast, they fit the forms I've listed. Some need a melee spell attack, some a ranged spell attack. Others are an area of effect that requires a saving throw.

Their maximum spell level increases in a manner similar to a warlock, so they are able to blast foes with more power as they gain levels. And they recover spell points during short rests (maximum of 3 in my campaign). The basic idea is that instead of a fixed spell, they can do many variations of any energy-based spell (since they are directly shaping the magical energy itself).

I haven't fully settled on how many forms they get, and how quickly, nor on how many total energies they get and how quickly. I'm inclined toward somewhat limited so each sorcerer has a unique mix, but no sorcerer has all of them.

 

[Quickleaf]

I think my perfect sorcerer would have all at-will spells. As in 100% of their spells they could cast as often as they wanted. Now, from a balance perspective I doubt that works. But from a thematic perspective, how I think of sorcerers and the iconic ones in novels, they can cast whatever spells they know however often they want.

I think I'd merge this idea...
with a bit from Beyond the Wall (where cantrips require an ability check, and failure means choosing between expending that cantrip for the day or suffering backlash, your choice)...
with a take on 3e's domain wizard...
with 5e's Metamagic.

So the Sorcerer gets all at-will spells, maybe a combo of other cantrips and unique sorcerer cantrips (designed to be upgraded).

Then as part of their subclass they choose a theme like Dragon Magic or Sorcery or Fire Magic or whatever. This determines their spell list – so instead of a single Sorcerer Spell List, there might be one spell list for each subclass.

Cantrips can be boosted to do more powerful things (i.e. casting them with a spell slot), but doing so without spending Sorcery Points requires a check – on a failure the cantrip is expended for the day or has some kind of backlash (player's choice). Sorcerer cantrips might be designed differently from other classes to include example backlashes for the DM to choose from.

Sorcery Points and Metamagic would need to be re-worked somewhat, but the basic idea could still apply to this system.

EDIT: And also overhaul the wild surge system while we're at it, so it's less zany, and more mysteriously dangerously magical.

 

[pming]

Hiya!

WARNING! Semi-Totally Side-Tangent Below!

...and...


Uuuggghhh!!!!!

Sorry....*SORCERERS ARE NOT BROKEN!

...er...wait...

Oh! Sorry, the TITLE of your thread suggests that they are BROKEN and need to be FIXED. LOL! "Obviously" my bad on this for reading "fix" to mean to "fix" something. Maybe re-write the title to be something like... "My ideas for Sorcerers" or something?

...

...

...

Sorry again. Honestly this time! I have developed a gargantuan hate-on for subjects/titles that say that something needs a "fix", when in actuality the poster is actually just posting their ideas for how to change or otherwise modify something in the game to fit their particular style of play. <-- Which, IMNSHO, is a very good thing! The more DM's who step in and actually try to address something in the game that they want to do differently rather than just run off to "Sage Advice", "Twitter", or the local game store to have someone else decide what they want for them, well, I think self-determined DM'ing is "goodrightfun".

(*nor are any other classes or races in the PHB)

Now, as for your actual idea for a different take on the Sorcerer...

I see where you are going. I get a distinct "Ars Magica" feel for some reason. What I'd look at doing is have a Sorcerer have "Sorcery" skills, with one Sorcery Skill being equal to one of the Schools of magic (Divination, Evocation, Illusion, etc). A Sorcerer could try and manipulate one of these 'schools' to cast/manifest a spell. These Sorcery Skills would be every bit like other skills...the PC would have to invest in these skills, just like any other. The maximum 'spell level' could be equal to 1/2 the Sorcery Skill bonus, plus CHA Adjustment. I wouldn't have ANY of the Sorcery Skills be CHA based; he's always getting that bonus anyway. The Sorcerer decides on what he wants a 'spell' to do at the time of casting...the DM decides what level and what School it falls under. He also decides the specifics with regards to everything the player doesn't state (e.g, "Range", "Duration", "Area of Affect", etc). The player makes the roll, DC equal to 10 + Spell Level x2 (x1 seems too easy).

No "limited times per day" or spell points or anything. Just raw "mana manipulation on the fly". Of course, I'd have a rule for failing by more than 10 points, as well as a natural 1....because I'm evil that way! [evilgrin]

That's the angle I'd take for what it looks like you are going for.... "on-the-fly" spell creation/casting by Sorcerers.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[LapBandit]

Hiya!

WARNING! Semi-Totally Side-Tangent Below!

...and...


Uuuggghhh!!!!!

Sorry....*SORCERERS ARE NOT BROKEN!

...er...wait...

Oh! Sorry, the TITLE of your thread suggests that they are BROKEN and need to be FIXED. LOL! "Obviously" my bad on this for reading "fix" to mean to "fix" something. Maybe re-write the title to be something like... "My ideas for Sorcerers" or something?

...

...

...

Sorry again. Honestly this time! I have developed a gargantuan hate-on for subjects/titles that say that something needs a "fix", when in actuality the poster is actually just posting their ideas for how to change or otherwise modify something in the game to fit their particular style of play. <-- Which, IMNSHO, is a very good thing! The more DM's who step in and actually try to address something in the game that they want to do differently rather than just run off to "Sage Advice", "Twitter", or the local game store to have someone else decide what they want for them, well, I think self-determined DM'ing is "goodrightfun".

(*nor are any other classes or races in the PHB)
Paul L. Ming

This part doesn't contribute to the discussion and since I value your opinion, I have a hate-on for when you do it.

Now, as for your actual idea for a different take on the Sorcerer...

I see where you are going. I get a distinct "Ars Magica" feel for some reason. What I'd look at doing is have a Sorcerer have "Sorcery" skills, with one Sorcery Skill being equal to one of the Schools of magic (Divination, Evocation, Illusion, etc). A Sorcerer could try and manipulate one of these 'schools' to cast/manifest a spell. These Sorcery Skills would be every bit like other skills...the PC would have to invest in these skills, just like any other. The maximum 'spell level' could be equal to 1/2 the Sorcery Skill bonus, plus CHA Adjustment. I wouldn't have ANY of the Sorcery Skills be CHA based; he's always getting that bonus anyway. The Sorcerer decides on what he wants a 'spell' to do at the time of casting...the DM decides what level and what School it falls under. He also decides the specifics with regards to everything the player doesn't state (e.g, "Range", "Duration", "Area of Affect", etc). The player makes the roll, DC equal to 10 + Spell Level x2 (x1 seems too easy).

No "limited times per day" or spell points or anything. Just raw "mana manipulation on the fly". Of course, I'd have a rule for failing by more than 10 points, as well as a natural 1....because I'm evil that way! [evilgrin]

That's the angle I'd take for what it looks like you are going for.... "on-the-fly" spell creation/casting by Sorcerers.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

This part is interesting and worth exploring.



I let sorcerers choose an entire school of magic (regardless of class) and choose spells from there as well. The one caveat is you cannot choose Warlock-only spells.

 

[Herobizkit]

I kind of like the UA Rune Magic attached to the Sorcerer.

Instead of a spell list, the Sorcerer can attune [X] runes to his person, giving him a suite of "spell-like abilities" (some of which are scalable). The number of runes to which he could attune would scale by level, perhaps. Perhaps he can also add a Metamagic rune to give him one extra option ofr his spell points.

This smacks of Final Fantasy 7's 'Materia' system, and that's a good thing imo.