The truth about THAC0

[ThirdWizard]

And actually I have multiple players who cheat, but only one of them has a special d20 that helps him roll higher numbers.

I think my reading comprehention has fallen to a 1st grade level. You don't mind your players cheating? I can't have read that one right...

 

[Quasqueton]

You don't mind your players cheating?

He can't help it. It's the game's fault.

Quasqueton

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

The first was mathematical. People add much faster and more accurately than they subtract. When you have subtraction of negative numbers, things get hairy for the less mathematically competent amongst us.

This is actually a bigger deal than most people realize. Making +'s always good and rolling higher always good increases speed and accuracy significantly. If the DM keeps the target AC secret (like my DMs habitually did) then I am forced to subtract after making a bunch of additions.

It did not help that there was this ambiguous concept of "high AC". Is it eaiser or harder to hit a high AC in 1e/2e?

 

[MerricB]

This is actually a bigger deal than most people realize. Making +'s always good and rolling higher always good increases speed and accuracy significantly. If the DM keeps the target AC secret (like my DMs habitually did) then I am forced to subtract after making a bunch of additions.

It did not help that there was this ambiguous concept of "high AC". Is it eaiser or harder to hit a high AC in 1e/2e?

As an addition to my earlier statements: things got very bad when the DM concealed AC (as I do as a matter of course).

A 8th level fighter THAC0=13, with a +2 sword and a 17 strength (so +3 to hit)...

Rolls a 15
Adds 3
Total roll of 18.
What AC does he hit? (13 - 18 = -5)

Subtracting is slower than addition. Subtracting when the result is a negative number is much, much slower.

Cheers!

 

[Rystil Arden]

My players and I never had a problem at all with THAC0, but we like the new attack bonus system better because it allows for a wider range of ACs and just seems more vibrant to us. To each his own, though, of course.

 

[Crothian]

He can't help it. It's the game's fault.

Quasqueton

The game casues his players to cheat? That might be the silliest thing I've read on these baords. How does the game do this? :\

 

[Rystil Arden]

The game casues his players to cheat? That might be the silliest thing I've read on these baords. How does the game do this? :\

I guess it makes it too tempting for his inner cheating demon by making it more expedient .

 

[Quasqueton]

The game casues his players to cheat? That might be the silliest thing I've read on these baords. How does the game do this?

That's what I said. Look upthread.

Quasqueton

 

[Vanye]

Doing the secret AC method in 2e slows the game down for little benefit.

Little benefit...except that it helped keep the game from being too mechanical. When keeping it secret, I find:

1) The players are more creative. If they don't know for sure that they need an extra +1 to hit, they're as likely to try and flank rather than cast a bless spell, or maybe they'd use a prayer spell.

2) There is a (albeit minor) sense of satisfaction in figuring it out. I know I've figured it out, and as mentioned, typically, it's determined within 1-2 rounds.

That being said, I'm not above providing DC's/AC's, I do it frequently...but keeping it secrect can be fun for both players and DM at times.

 

[Crothian]

That's what I said. Look upthread.

Quasqueton

Ya, but that's not what the other guy said. He just said he didn't like the game because his players cheat. You threw in the game made them do it.