The Weird Penalty of Core Classes
- Thread starter The_Gneech
- Start date
Whimsical
Explorer
How about changing your rogue levels to Wilderness Rogue levels?The_Gneech said:
Bottom line: The favored-class rules don't inhibit min-maxing or provide any other vital function, unless one is utterly committed to humans being seated at the top of the optimization pyramid.
Why is that Gneech's proposed build would have been acceptable with a human or halfling, but not an elf? What "min-maxing" benefit would an elf get out of the deal that a human or halfling wouldn't?
The favored class rule was not contrived for game balance purposes. It was contrived to make humans the top dog race, while pigeon-holing every other race into its "traditional" niche. Dump it. Trust me, humans get a pretty good deal even without the favored class scheme and don't suffer for its loss (conversely, half-elves have a pretty lousy deal even with the scheme and thus are suboptimal any way ya slice it).
Why is that Gneech's proposed build would have been acceptable with a human or halfling, but not an elf? What "min-maxing" benefit would an elf get out of the deal that a human or halfling wouldn't?
The favored class rule was not contrived for game balance purposes. It was contrived to make humans the top dog race, while pigeon-holing every other race into its "traditional" niche. Dump it. Trust me, humans get a pretty good deal even without the favored class scheme and don't suffer for its loss (conversely, half-elves have a pretty lousy deal even with the scheme and thus are suboptimal any way ya slice it).
The_Gneech
Explorer
Klaus said:
I'm still tweaking ... but there are a couple of problems with Beastmaster.
1) Conceptually, I don't really like taking additional classes to plug holes; while I'm not of the school that sees a single level dip as Wrong Bad Fun, I also feel like I shouldn't be taking levels in a class that I don't really care about.
2) I can't afford to spend both a feat (Skill Focus: Animal Handling) and a level just to boost the animal companion.
I'm currently looking at Ranger 4 / Scout 5 / Thief-Acrobat 1 as a strong possibility, taking the Defensive Archery feat from Races of the Wild to gain an approximation of the OBI "close combat shot" ability. That build would lose me Acrobatic Charge until 12th level (Waaah!) but would clean up a lot of the multiclassing problems and has some nice compensations as well.
In case I haven't said so already, thanks for the suggestions nonetheless, everybody!
-The Gneech
WayneLigon
Adventurer
The_Gneech said:
Really, if you're going for Legolas the Unparalleled Bowman of The Movies, I don't think you can ignore Order of the Bow (or, perhaps, Deepwoods Sniper).
I'd go ahead and talk to the GM about just across the board ditching the Favored Class rules. Arcana Unearthed did, and works just fine without it. Building to a concept is not powergaming or min-maxing; it's just that some combos - like in the real world - are better than others.
To best capture Legolas, IMO, you are going about it wrong.
Using the D&D ranger doesn't fit. Legoals sdidn't ahve an animal companion nor did he cast spells IIRC. He was an expert bowman and two weapon fighter. Rangers can be good at one but not the other.
Instead go with fighter (you need the feats to capture him properly) and go with both styles of combat.
You still have the favored class issue. Is there an elven subrace with fighter as its favored class?
Using the D&D ranger doesn't fit. Legoals sdidn't ahve an animal companion nor did he cast spells IIRC. He was an expert bowman and two weapon fighter. Rangers can be good at one but not the other.
Instead go with fighter (you need the feats to capture him properly) and go with both styles of combat.
You still have the favored class issue. Is there an elven subrace with fighter as its favored class?
Aus_Snow
First Post
You could do what I did with one character, which is deliberately take only 2 or 3 levels of Ranger ever, thereby avoiding spells, and incidentally gaining several perfectly Legolasesque abilities. Add to that however many levels of Wilderness Rogue, some prestige class(es) to do with archery and/or general woodsiness etc., and you're away! What better things to have than wild empathy, Track, favoured enemy (or environment; either way), Rapid Shot, (possibly) Endurance, trapfinding, trapsense, evasion, uncanny dodge (+improved), (arguably) sneak attack, and *any* of the Rogue special abilities (particularly some of the Wilderness Rogue-specific ones, but any really).. oh, and tons of skills and skp's.
Alternatively, Scout *could* work in place of W/Rogue here, but I strongly dislike that class, so naturally I'm not cheering for that option.
To me the above configuration would be far more Legolas-ish than most of the other proposed builds. But I realise it's "all in the eye of.." *shrug*
Alternatively, Scout *could* work in place of W/Rogue here, but I strongly dislike that class, so naturally I'm not cheering for that option.
To me the above configuration would be far more Legolas-ish than most of the other proposed builds. But I realise it's "all in the eye of.." *shrug*
The_Gneech
Explorer
Don't get too fixated on the idea of "Legolas clone" -- that's just a convenient shorthand term for "elven archer who can do all sorts of wild acrobatic moves." 
I was using Legolas as a springboard for my own character.
I'm really diggin' the Scout/Ranger/ThfAcr build, now that it's done; I'll post him in the Rogue's Gallery later today. I still think multiclassing penalties are wonky, but fortunately this version avoids them. Anybody who suggested Scout/Ranger, I'm sorry I doubted you.
-The Gneech
I was using Legolas as a springboard for my own character. I'm really diggin' the Scout/Ranger/ThfAcr build, now that it's done; I'll post him in the Rogue's Gallery later today. I still think multiclassing penalties are wonky, but fortunately this version avoids them. Anybody who suggested Scout/Ranger, I'm sorry I doubted you.
-The Gneech
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