The whole POINT of 3.5 (that everyone is missing)

[Desdichado]

Wow, that custom smily got quite a workout on the replies, didn't it?

Anyway, as others have said, 3.5 can't be targetting new customers. If someone walks into a game store with the intent to purchase D&D, they don't care (or even know) the difference between 3.0 and 3.5, so it has no effect on them. It doesn't grab a new market in a way that 3.0 doesn't -- it doesn't even really look all that different, it's not accompanied with a marketing blitz or anything like that (outside of gamer publications, anyway.) Clearly to me, anyway, 3.5 is marketted at folks who already have 3.0. The very basic premise of the first post in the thread, that 3.5 isn't for Joe Bloe ENWorlder, therefore, doesn't seem to hold up under even a cursory glance, much less any type of "stop and think about this for 30 seconds" lithmus test.

 

[Emiricol]

Re: Re: Re: The whole POINT of 3.5 (that everyone is missing)

Hardly a troll. He actually came back and posted again in his own topic. Anyway, I agree with you, nute. mostly. My only problem with that is while it may be aimed at new gamers, WotC could hardly ignore the fact that releasing new books would force everyone who has to have their gaming crack fix to go out and preorder the set. So, I think it's 50% at newbies and 50% at us vets.

"These books aren't for you" is NOT a troll?

 

[Azlan]

The books aren't for you.

You're an enworld.org reader. The very fact that you're on this message board implies that you take a view of D&D "beyond the game", so to speak. If it were only about playing the game, then it would be as simple as looking over the changes in 3.5, taking what you like, ignoring what you don't, and going on your merry way.

Really? Of the scores of roleplaying gamers (most of them players, though some of them, DMs) I've met during the past few years, since 3E D&D came out, few of them have been active participants on these message boards. Of the dozen or so players who have been in my 3E D&D campaigns in the past couple of years, only one of them is (or, rather, was) a participant on these message boards. And of all the six or seven players in my present campaign, none of them that I know of are planning on getting 3.5 anytime soon. In fact, I am the only one in our present group (and I, of course, am a participant on these message boards) that is interested in buying the 3.5 core rulebooks (though at present, I am unable to due to my financial situation). And when I do buy the 3.5 core rulebooks, I am sure I will end up being the one who is instrumental in getting the others to buy the books themselves.

 

[TiQuinn]

Re: Re: Re: The whole POINT of 3.5 (that everyone is missing)

I'm curious to know what kind of marketing WOTC is doing outside of the current players. Where are they advertising? What are the ads like?

J

I'll be surprised if you find any such marketing.

 

[Barak]

That's silly. It's pretty obvious that the largest part of the market that will get 3.5 are people who participate actively on various messageboards, members of the RPGA, or perhaps people who frequent Cons. Why? Because nobody else cares about the "official" rules. A self-contained group of 5-6 people who game together most likely won't "upgrade". Why? Because they have most probably already house-ruled whatever they were unsatisfied with in a way more suited to their game style. In many cases, such groups play in Homegrown Campaigns, running adventures created of whole cloth by the DM. They are, basically, similar to those people who still play 2nd edition. But if you are in the RPGA, you have virtually no choice but to adapt. And if you are a frequent poster to message boards.. Well, if you don't adapt, the number of threads in which you cannot post, or will post innacurately will grow. Just like we see little people in the RPGA still referring to their Skills & Powers book. Or people on here referring to the rules in the Complete Barbarian Handbook.

 

[Enceladus]

Re: Re: Re: Re: The whole POINT of 3.5 (that everyone is missing)

"These books aren't for you" is NOT a troll?

Did anyone else besides me get the whole offhanded toungue in cheeckedness of the original post?

Lighten up!!

 

[nute]

That's silly. It's pretty obvious that the largest part of the market that will get 3.5 are people who participate actively on various messageboards, members of the RPGA, or perhaps people who frequent Cons. Why? Because nobody else cares about the "official" rules.

Not quite. Once the 3.5 books hit the shelves this Friday, not many places will still be selling the 3rd Edition books. I don't know if WotC is doing inventory buybacks like some fields do with new editions, but within a few months, the 3.5 core books will have replaced their predecessors on the shelves.

The new gamer will be buying 3.5 by default - it's what's out there. The experienced gamer (meaning all of us here, naturally) only needs to buy it if we WANT to. We've all got the 3rd Edition stuff, we'll have the SRD available if we absolutely NEED to refer to it for new stuff coming out, there is no iron-clad fist forcing us to buy 3.5 if we don't want to.

The gamers that frequent ENWorld, the cons, that analyze the precise minutae of "racial and class equalities from 3.0 to 3.5" are a minority. A vocal one, yes, but a minority when it comes to the market share. And as every business does (including your FLGS), WotC must and should look at the majority market share first, then consider the minority.

Will 3.5 be harder for a new gamer picking up the book to understand than 3rd Edition? I don't think so. From everything I've seen, it's more streamlined and intuitive. YMMV.

Are WotC interested in making a profit? Yes, they'd be idiots if they didn't. Is that their SOLE motivation, as some folks would claim? Highly doubtful. The new versions obviously had a lot of man-hours go into designing and researching them, and while they will cause a marked upswing in sales (because of the prevailing "must buy new stuff!" mindset in the consumer, even more prevalent among gamers), I cannot believe that's the only reason.

My own personal opinion is that the gamers who refuse to purchase or use the new editions are welcome to do so, and I'll bet that they'll enjoy their gaming sessions as much as those of us moving seamlessly into the new rules. Just as there are still holdovers that stick to the AD&D ruleset, there'll be holdovers that stick to the 3.0 rules, and to 3.5 when the 4th Edition (D&D Unlimited? Revised? Ice Age?) comes out.

But really. It won't ruin the game, any more than the complete change that 3rd Edition brought "ruined the game".

Emiricol said...

I give this troll 3 stars. It suffers from a lack of really original content, but does present an old argument in a semi-new light. Penalty also for being very clearly a troll. It receives bonuses for the fact that I agree with it and this is my review. Bonuses as well for having more than one paragraph, and completely avoiding the use of l33t-speak.

Thus, 3 stars. You heard it here first, folks!

Son, a 'troll' would be if I just threw out "All of you grognards are stupid for refusing to move forward with the times!" to see your reactions. Don't confuse post count with intelligence, gaming experience, or worth of opinions. Not every post you disagree with or may have seen more poorly-worded elsewhere is a troll.

~M.

 

[Emiricol]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The whole POINT of 3.5 (that everyone is missing)

Did anyone else besides me get the whole offhanded toungue in cheeckedness of the original post?

Lighten up!!

Perhaps you missed my tongue-in-cheek reply. Sheesh, lighten up. I give you a mere 1 star, Sir.

 

[Barak]

Well obviously brand new gamers will buy 3.5, since it's what will be in the stores. But I view that as partially irrelevant. Would they have bought 3.0 if 3.5 had never come out? I say yes. It's what would have been there, and I seriously doubt it's the .5 that sold them on the idea to finally pick up D&D. So WotC would have made the same sale, without the expense of producing a new "edition". No, what is relevant, to me, is the marketing of the 3.5 books to those who have the 3.0 books. And I won't rewrite my argument, but I view it as still accurate.

And don't worry about the calls to trolling.. Some people are quick to decide that someone who doesn't think like they do cannot possibly be serious.

 

[Emiricol]

Alternatively, some people might just think he was trolling.