The Worm That Walks

[Arken]

I was considering using this in my campaign on a major villain.

However one thing I noticed in its spell like abilities is 'summon vermin' which reads...

As Summon Nature's Ally except it summons 10HD of vermin per level.

Is this wrong? This seems like the most powerful summoning ability I've ever seen, if it uses character level it's obscene whilst if it uses the caster level provided (20th sorcerer) its even worse at levels lower than 20. For example would a 20th level character be able to summon 200HD of creatures? wouldn't that mean it could summon 4 Vermiurges (also in the ELH) for example. I know that I can modify it but what exactly to and is there any official ruling on this.

(Or have I completely missed something and am being an idiot )

My Thanks for any help...

 

[Maitre Du Donjon]

doesn't it specify the maximum HD a summoned creature can have? Couldn't it mean that you can summon a maximum of 1 10-HD vermin per caster level?

Trying to help

Maitre D

 

[Arken]

Thanks Maitre D. That could be something I suppose but it doesn't really fit the wording

One thing I thought is that maybe it's supposed to be by level of Summon Nature's Ally being cast but no level is specified.

PS. It couldn't summon the Vermiurge as I just noticed its an Abberation but the sentiment still stands there are other powerful vermin out there espwecially if enough of them can be summoned...

 

[The Iron Mark]

Like those Devestation Vermin. Also note that the WtW has a Vermin equivalent of Animal Growth, and a Vermin version of Animal Friendship I think.

 

[Maitre Du Donjon]

I only have the SRD vermins at my disposal, but the sorceror in question could summon 4 Colossal Monstrous Spiders (for example), which are CR 10.

The equivalent 20th level druid could summon (via summon nature's ally IX) (for example)
1 elder elemental (CR 11)
or 1d3 (didn't check)
or 1d4+1 Dire Tigers (CR8), Elephants (CR8), Huge Elementals (CR7) or Treants (CR8)

The equivalent 20th level cleric, sorceror or wizard could summon (via summon monster IX) (for example)
1 astral deva (cr14) or vrock (cr13)
1d4+1 blue slaadi (cr8) or djinn (cr5 (?))

His summonings seems to be more powerful, but you have to remember that vermin is dumb as a pile of dirty rocks. They have good offensive capacities, especially vs opponents that don't have very good defensive capacities...

Anywho, my 2 cents. It seems like its a powerful power (sic) but a lot of things can tear through monstrous spiders...

Maitre D

 

[Arken]

Thankyou again for answering, your thoughts certainly help Alright I'm nearly convinced that it could be on the remote side of balanced given the powers given to half fiends and celestials.

However whilst the monsterous spiders are admittedly rather feeble despite their HD there are vermin out there in wizards products that have freaky huge powers and lower HD. Maybe I could rule that only the standard vermin can be summoned, it would certainly balance it a bit more. Or I could set the limit to 5HD per level instead perhaps. Especially since it's a template, and whilst I know that since it's in the ELH it should only be applied to those characters I would have liked to have applied it to a slightly lower level creature (level 10 - 15) where that 20th level casting ability might be a bit too much.

I'm not just being difficult for no reason though, obviously I'm not going to allow anything that would break teh game it's just trying to find a happy medium

Just as a point of interest I'll put down a few of the potentialy game breaking things possible if ANY vermin was allowed.

200HD =
from the fiend folio
13 x Bonespear (CR12, 15HD) Demonic large crickets
5 x Century Worm (CR 19, 40HD) Truly concerning gargantuan worm with an 'odd' appearance
40 x Plague Ant Swarm (CR 5, 10HD)
40 x Rapture Locust Swarm (CR 6, 10HD)

from the MMII

6 x Megapede (CR 20, HD 32) Perhaps the most broken one going
15 x Leechwalker (CR 10, 13HD)

Wahahahaha!

 

[splitinfinitude]

I think I'm glad I'm not in your campaign!

 

[green slime]

What challenge rating is the Worm that Walks? I can't remember and no book here at work

I really can't see it being a huge problem at those Epic Levels.

 

[Arken]

What challenge rating is the Worm that Walks? I can't remember and no book here at work

I really can't see it being a huge problem at those Epic Levels.

It's a +3CR template which is sort of the problem, there is nothing that says it MUST be applied only to an epic character though I suppose the intention was that it would be. However the CR system is still supposed to be functioning normaly and the power seems a bit beyond the +3CR to me. I was looking for suggestions of a decent replacement or someone better than me with the rules to show me that it wasn't in fact broken or meaning what I thought it did

splitinfinitude: You should see what I'm thinking of applying it to

 

[green slime]

Aha! a template!

But it assumes a spell caster, does it not? (I'll check up when I get home)