Theandric Saga OOC

Vis

Based on the spells I know, I guess I would like to have some Rego and Intellego vis in the stores, though I suppose Muto and Creo would also be of use.

Thanks.
 

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MummyKitty said:
Based on the spells I know, I guess I would like to have some Rego and Intellego vis in the stores, though I suppose Muto and Creo would also be of use.

Thanks.
Okay... I'll add in 2 Muto, 2 Creo, and 1 more Rego for your contribution.

I'll also go ahead and assign 2 Intellego, 2 Terram, and 1 more Mentem to flesh out the final 5 pawns.

See the updated post for the final tally.

Let me know if anyone has a problem with these as our final values.

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?p=2657685#post2657685

Optionally, we might consider dropping 2 Corpus for either Herbam or Animal, since we are in the forest and all.
 
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Nzld said:
The Vis Stocks we are determining here are for the vis already on hand (i.e. what was provided by Fengheld). Techically this is communal vis, belonging to the covenant as a whole, rather than to the individual magi (though you will likely have that too, at some point).

For your OOC contribution, how about 2 Intellego, 2 Corpus, and 1 Mentem, then?

I'll update my previous post with the running tally.

SURE !!!
BTW, Nzld, I liked they way you delve into details, it's giving a nice good view of the game
 
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Nzld said:
Perhaps we should begin discussing some OOC ideas for the covenant itself.

My main idea is to have the standing stones integrated into the layout of the covenant, such that the buildings are arranged around it, with a main house for the library and meeting hall (along with the mundane areas such as a kitchen and dorms), then allow each magus a seperate sanctum/lab building. All the buildings would be symetrically aligned around the stones.

Another idea I had was to have the above ground buildings be mostly superficial, but the important stuff would be underground. The main council chamber/library could be positioned directly beneath the stone circle, with passageways and tunnels leading to the various sanctums and secret entrances, etc.

Do your magi prefer "simpler" construction, or something more elaborate and grandiose? Perhaps the above-ground facilities could be constructed like a temple? That could incorporate both Titus's like for all things Roman, as well as Gorgamesh's interest in things Divine (albeit, such a temple would likely be more along pagan lines than Dominion).

I also think secret passages to and from various lookout points both on the cliff and at road level would be viable for grogs to come and go discreetly.

An open dome like structure can be above the stones, this "Magical" like place can be a nice outdoor meeting place, as for our main library, it can be undergruond right beneath the Stone circle, as for the other building, they can be scattered around as you wish, Gorgamesh do not care for the standings of the buildings
 

Nzld said:
Okay... I'll add in 2 Muto, 2 Creo, and 1 more Rego for your contribution.

I'll also go ahead and assign 2 Intellego, 2 Terram, and 1 more Mentem to flesh out the final 5 pawns.

See the updated post for the final tally.

Let me know if anyone has a problem with these as our final values.

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?p=2657685#post2657685

Optionally, we might consider dropping 2 Corpus for either Herbam or Animal, since we are in the forest and all.

We can drop one corpus for animal I guess, let's stay with 3 corpus.
 

The holiday season is upon us at Israel, and I'm off to celebrate it in a roleplaying convention. I'll be offline for a few days, probably until thursday.
Sorry.

Roy, will I see you on tuesday or wendsday at Icon?

Yair
 

Nzld said:
Yair, is it feasible to allow the Specialist a Magic Theory score of 1, so he can at least fulfill the first role of copying magical texts?

Alternately, if you don't want the scribe to start with such a skill, would the magi be able to train him in it in-game?
Having a score in Magic Theory increases the usability of his Scribe skill. The way I understand it, you pay only for the highest Ability as only one Ability can be used at a time (each season). But having a score of 1 in Magic Theory allows the scribe to "use" both it and Scribe in the season.
So I'd say yes, I'll allow for someone to have (or learn) Magic Theory, but I'll add up his score in it to his Scribe Ability to represent him being more worthwhile in his Scribe than someone else of the same Scribe level.
A bit of a houserule, but there.

Edit: On second thought, making a houserule for such a trivial manner is nonsense. Let the character have a score of 1 in Magic Theory; you only pay for the highest Ability, as per the rules.
 
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Yair said:
The holiday season is upon us at Israel, and I'm off to celebrate it in a roleplaying convention. I'll be offline for a few days, probably until thursday.
Sorry.

Roy, will I see you on tuesday or wendsday at Icon?

Yair

Maybe.
If I'll be there with Salvo I'll call, Shir sent me her scehduale
 

Nzld said:
Optionally, we might consider dropping 2 Corpus for either Herbam or Animal, since we are in the forest and all.

If we bring down the stag I bet we can get some Animal from its horns.... :]

Your numbers on the vis sound good to me. Thanks for setting this up Nzld!
 

Legalities

MummyKitty said:
If we bring down the stag I bet we can get some Animal from its horns.... :]
Lol, quite right.

I'll add Nzld's excellent work to the covenant's description and make another post shortly.

Legalities and Covenant Oath and Charter
Officially, you won't have a covenant until it is approved in Tribunal (in 7 years), but this holds surprisingly little legal weight.
The point of a covenant oath is to bind its magi to each other. Right now, if one of you magi were to seize the "covenant's" vis and books, and retire to his sanctum (or another covenant) - he would be prefectly within his rights and there would be nothing you could do about it (except for Wizard's War). If he refuses to agree to act according to the other's council, he is likewise within his rights.
You can take an oath, strike a covenant between you, to own property jointly and obey each other's decisions in council (or the leader's decisions, or whatever), to have an obligation to aid and protect each other and your common resources, and so on. That's a covenant's oath, and the precise details of it are the covenant's Charter.
Fengheld's charter, for example, places great authority in the hands of its elected leader and sets up several levels of authority and privilege for its magi.

There is no pressing need to take an oath. The redcap (and some other magi) expected you to take one as soon as possible as this is seen as prudent, but no one is going to twist your arm into taking one.

Going into the details of what exactly is detailed in the Charter (i.e. the exact wording of the oath) can be tedious, perhaps more so than the calculations involved above. I personally find such decisions interesting (especically in-character, as my magus tries to impose the order he sees as most appropriate), but I can cetainly understand someone not wanting to engage in hectic debate, or wallow in minutea of an imaginary text for a covenant that, for now, doesn't really even exist.
Feel free to gloss the whole thing. Say that you just "take AN oath", or decide to postpone taking one till later, or whatever.
Or weigh in and debate the issue to death. Your choice.

Here is an example charter and oath, from the net (just the first one I got in Google):
[sblock]Oath
I, [name], do humbly ask for acceptance into the Covenant of Le Blanc. I do so of my own will, under no influences other other than my own; no magicks or powers mundane force me here today. I understand that my life is forfeit should this or any other part of my oath be found false. Here I stand, with full knowledge of what I do.

I swear by the Order, my life, and all I hold dear, that I am name, follower of house, filius of parens, fully trained solely in the ways of Hermetic Magic and none other. I here truthfully state I have never consorted with or aided demons, diabolists, or practitioners of magic other than those sanctioned by the Order, and will continue this practice as long as I live.

I further swear the title of Magus is properly mine, being conferred upon me by magus in the year date, at the Covenant covenant, within the tribunal tribunal, I, name, do now renounce all ties, oaths, and loyalties, binding or otherwise, to my parens and the Covenant of my apprenticeship.

Now I begin anew, and give myself wholly to Le Blanc. I understand all that this entails, and agree to all terms within the Covenant charter for now and for all time. In addition, I swear to follow both the Code of Hermes and the Peripheral Code, lest I lose my title of Magus, position within my House, and place within this Covenant.

From this day forward, Le Blanc shall be my home. I agree to make Le Blanc's goals mine own, its allies mine own, its enemies mine own, its riches mine own, and its hardships mine own. I swear never, by action or inaction, to allow the Covenant to come to harm, in the physical, magical, spiritual, or personal sense. I agree never to represent Le Blanc to others, sign binding pacts, or make oaths regarding its members or its welfare without first being so empowered by the Covenant. In all respects I will uphold the reputation and honor of this, my new home, and consider its welfare above my own.

This is my solemn covenant. Le Blanc's very life is now mine own.

Charter
This be the charter of the covenant Le Blanc, founded the month of April, 1202, in Provence, France. The founders and charter members be the maga Lythande, of house Guernicus, the magus Grim, of house Tytalus, the maga Neanne de Sule, of house Verditius, the magus Martin Windmaster, of house Ex Miscellanea, and the magus Grantor, of house Bonisagus, presiding.

This charter lays down the foundations of the covenant, and the rules upon which the covenant was founded, to promote the study and exchange of magical knowledge, to advance and uphold the Hermetic arts, and to foster the exchange of mutual respect among the members. It is to these ends that all of the following strictures apply, and to which this covenant is pledged.

The charter members of Le Blanc are granted full rights and privileges while on covenant grounds, which includes the following:

Each member has one vote in matters of covenant policy, including the application of this charter in all respects, and the modification of this charter to continue within it's intended purpose.
Each member may have equipment and supplies of any nature, so long as the expense or use of the equipment does not injure the covenant or any of it's members.
Each member may have private areas in the covenant as needed, so long as the covenant has the space to provide.
Each member has free and unrestricted access to all areas of the covenant except those which are private to other covenant inhabitants, and those controlled by covenant officers (the Autocrat and the High Initiate).
Each member has access to all covenant resources (libraries, vis stores, magic artifacts) on a temporary basis. All resources must be returned or replenished, unless lost in the process of defending the covenant or performing covenant business.
Each member has the service of covenant inhabitants excluding other members, so long as that service does not interfere with the plans of other members or force the inhabitant to perform duties for which they are not employed.
Each member is entitled to privileged service from one covenant inhabitant (excluding other members) of their choice. Each member has complete authority over this inhabitant in the event that the services desired conflict with that of other members.
All members may draft wills to specify the distribution of their belongings upon death. If a member has no will on file at the covenant, all that members belongings become covenant property upon his/her death. Wills must be witnessed by the Autocrat and at least one member.
The charter members of Le Blanc are pledged to respect the following responsibilities:

Each member must surrender one third of all vis acquired on expeditions outside covenant grounds to the covenant. Other payment (magical artifacts, potions, service, etc.) may be surrendered instead, if approved by vote of the council.
Each member must surrender all magical resources found while on covenant business to the covenant.
Each member must scribe in the covenant libraries for at least one full season every 2 years.
Each member may provide one season of service for the covenant, approved by a majority vote of the council, to replace the scribing or vis requirements.
Each member of the covenant must provide full assistance and resources to help defend the covenant from danger, at need, with no compensation for resources used. Compensation may be appealed for to the council.
Each member must attend all regularly scheduled meetings of the council, and must attend all unscheduled meetings of the council of which they are informed, and are able to attend.
Each member must inform the Autocrat whenever the member leaves the covenant grounds, and provide information on their intended destination(s) and expected return. Members returning to the covenant must inform the Autocrat immediately upon their return.
Each member who leaves the covenant must, within a week of their return, submit to an interview with the Autocrat or another scribe, so that their activities may be recorded. Expeditions which are not of importance to the covenant (discretion of the magus in question) are not subject to this requirement except by choice of the High Initiate.
Members who have a debt to the covenant may be directed by the High Initiate or by the council to perform specific services to pay their debts, so long as the directed service is beneficial to the covenant as a whole.
Failure of any member to perform their responsibilities will result in punishments to be determined by a vote of council. Standard punishment is a fine of 2 pawns of vis, and, if possible, fulfillment of the failed responsibility as soon as possible.

New members may be inducted into the covenant as associate members if they fulfill the following requirements:

Submission to questioning from a council of all covenant members, while under the influence of Frosty Breath of the Spoken Lie or other magical influences.
Demonstration of proficiency in at least two different areas of magic.
Acceptance by a unanimous vote of all coven members.
Swearing of the covenant oath.
Submission of some body part (hair, nails, etc.) for storage in the covenant vault.
Apprentices trained at the covenant need only be accepted by a majority vote of the council to become associate members.

Privileges of an associate member are as follows:

Each associate member may have equipment and supplies of any nature, so long as the expense or use of the equipment does not injure the covenant or any of it's members.
Each associate member may have private areas in the covenant as needed, so long as the covenant has the space to provide.
Each associate member has free and unrestricted access to all areas of the covenant except those which are private to other covenant inhabitants, and those controlled by covenant officers (the Autocrat and the High Initiate).
Each associate member has access to all covenant resources (libraries, vis stores, magic artifacts) on a temporary basis. All resources must be returned or replenished, unless lost in the process of defending the covenant or performing covenant business.
Each associate member has the service of covenant inhabitants excluding members, so long as that service does not interfere with the plans of other members or force the inhabitant to perform duties for which they are not employed.
Associate members may attend all council meetings.
Responsibilities of an associate member are as follows:

Associate members must surrender all vis and magical artifacts acquired on expeditions outside covenant grounds or when on covenant business to the covenant, which will be counted towards requirements for acceptance as a full member (see below). Other payment (magical artifacts, potions, service, etc.) may be surrendered instead, if approved by vote of the council.
Each associate member must provide full assistance and resources to help defend the covenant from danger, at need, with no compensation for resources used. Compensation may be appealed for to the council.
Each associate member must perform services for the covenant, as required by the council, not to exceed one season of service per year.
Each associate member must inform the Autocrat whenever the member leaves the covenant grounds, and provide information on their intended destination(s) and expected return. Members returning to the covenant must inform the Autocrat immediately upon their return.
Each member who leaves the covenant must, within a week of their return, submit to an interview with the Autocrat or another scribe, so that their activities may be recorded. Expeditions which are not of importance to the covenant (discretion of the magus in question) are not subject to this requirement except by choice of the High Initiate.
Members who have a debt to the covenant may be directed by any full member to perform specific services to pay their debts, so long as the directed service is beneficial to the covenant as a whole.
To obtain the status of a full member, an associate member must fulfill the following requirements:

The member must have no outstanding debts to the covenant as a whole.
The member must supply the covenant with 10 pawns of vis or the equivalent in magical artifacts, potions, etc.
The member must scribe for the covenant for 4 seasons. Appropriate duties may be substituted for scribing, but covenant service required of an associate member by the council does not count.
The member must provide the covenant with one outstanding service, that enhances the covenant in some way, such as by inventing a strong defensive spell, enchanting an item of significant use, or making an alliance between the covenant and some powerful political or magical force. Whether any service will fulfill this requirement is subject to a vote of the council.
The member must be accepted by a majority vote of the council.
Full members are granted the same privileges, and have the same responsibilities as charter members. All new full members of the covenant must add their names and sigils to the covenant roster, from which they can only be removed by death or declaration of Wizard's March.

One member of the covenant shall be chosen by vote of a full council to hold the post of High Initiate, acting as spokesperson for the covenant in internal and external matters. The High Initiate must attend all Tribunals, though other members are not excluded from Tribunals. This post may only change hands upon resignation or death of the holder or formal challenge from a full member. Formal challenge for the position, may, at the option of the challenger, be decided by a new vote of a full council, or by Certamen, witnessed by all covenant members. If the challenge takes the form of a vote, the vote must be unanimous. If the challenge takes the form of Certamen, the challenger must still be approved by a majority vote to gain the position. Resignation of the High Initiate may be given at any council meeting, but formal challenges may only be made during the first council meeting in any given year.

Let it be recorded that the founding members of Le Blanc chose the magus Grantor, of house Bonisagus, as the first High Initiate.

The covenant shall have an Autocrat, in charge of all mundane and day to day affairs of the covenant, including hiring of covenant personnel, upkeep of the covenant resources (supplies, treasury, libraries, vis supply, etc.), and record keeping for the covenant, including the recording of the minutes of all covenant meetings.

The Autocrat shall have all the privileges of an associate member, and the following additional privileges:

In cases of a tie of the council when a majority vote is required, when a unanimous vote of the council is required and at least one full member is not in attendance, or when a vote of the full council is required and one full member is missing, the Autocrat may cast one vote.
The Autocrat is considered a full member with seniority over all but the High Initiate when the Autocrat's interests conflict with those of another member.
The Autocrat has full control over all covenant resources, and this control may only be overridden by a majority vote of the council.
The Autocrat is entitled to a longevity potion and a charm against magic of at least the fifth magnitude.
The Autocrat shall have all the responsibilities of an associate member, excluding responsibilities of regular covenant service. The Autocrat shall have the following additional responsibilities:

Upkeep of all covenant resources, including record keeping, purchasing, and selling.
Attendance of all council meetings.
Recording of all council meetings.
If at any time, the covenant lacks an Autocrat, the privileges and responsibilities of the Autocrat shall fall to the High Initiate, until such time as the covenant again has an Autocrat.

The covenant shall have a Captain of the Guard, who commands the covenants armed forces and is responsible for them in all ways except for the acquisition of weapons, which falls under the authority of the Autocrat.

The Captain of the Guard has complete authority over covenant military personnel, and in military matters his orders may only be overridden by a majority vote of the council.

The Captain of the Guard shall have all the privileges of an associate member, and he has seniority over all non-members. He may attend any covenant meeting unless asked to leave by a full member.

Meetings of the covenant council shall be held the first full moon of every season. Additional meetings my be called by the Autocrat or any full member, so long as the Autocrat is notified in time to summon all members on covenant grounds, and to prepare the council chambers, if necessary.

Matters which may be discussed at council meetings are unrestricted, with the exception that matters which have already been decided by a vote may only be re-introduced for discussion or vote with approval of the High Initiate.

The right to speak in covenant meetings is granted without limits to all members in attendance. However, in cases where more than one person is speaking at the same time, the High Initiate may call for silence, and require each member to speak in turn. Non-members in attendance of council meetings may only speak when called upon by the High Initiate. Once the High Initiate has admitted a non-member to speak, they may speak freely for the duration of the meeting, until dismissed by the High Initiate.

Votes may be called for on any subject, by the Autocrat or High Initiate at any time, or by any other member with the support of one other full member. Votes by the council are binding on all covenant inhabitants, including all magi and the Autocrat. Members absent for votes forfeit their votes in those issues, unless they convince the High Initiate to call for another vote when the member returns. Ties are decided by the Autocrat, as outlined above.

Anyone carrying a magus' sigil has the authority of that magus while on covenant grounds, or when dealing with covenant personnel outside covenant grounds. The Autocrat and the Captain of the Guard will have a sigil for the purpose of transferral of authority as well. The High Initiate has an additional sigil that carries the power of the post separate from the normal sigil of a magus. A member may override the authority of one carrying his or her sigil, but unless the authority is overridden, the magus is responsible for all commitments and decisions made by the wielder of the sigil.

No spells or other magical activity are allowed within council meetings without the consent of the High Initiate and all members who will be affected by the spell. Members may be subjected to spells which they object to if a vote of the council approves it. This ban on magical activities includes Certamen. At the consent of the High Initiate and all parties involved, however, the meeting may be suspended for Certamen, to be resumed, without the attendance of the defeated members, when the Certamen is decided.

Certamen is not allowed anywhere in the covenant without the consent of the High Initiate or a vote of the council. Certamen within the covenant may only take place in the Duelling Circle, and must be witnessed by the autocrat and at least one other full member. Additionally, the High Initiate must be present, as a witness or participant, if the High Initiate is on covenant grounds when the Certamen is declared. Certamen on covenant grounds takes the traditional format, with the challenger choosing the technique and the challenged choosing the form of the contest.

This ends the charter of Le Blanc, sealed with the sigils of the charter members, this fifth day of May, 1202. Provisions to this charter may only be added, removed, or changed with a unanimous vote of the council.

Grantor Lythande Grim

Martin Windmaster Neanne de Sule



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Addendum, on the twentyfirst day of July, 1215: A member may be cast out from the covenant by unanimous vote of all other full members, if said member has grievously broken against the charter of the covenant.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Addendum, on the tenth day of August, 1218:
The obligation to contribute a season of work to the covenant every two years is hereby removed.

One third of the covenant's net vis income (gathered vis minus any vis spent from covenant stores) is distributed among the full members of the covenant once a year.

The minimum length of associate membership is five years. An exception can be made by the vote of the covenant council.

A new class of membership, Candidate Member, is taken into use. A prospective member becomes first a candidate member, then an associate member, and finally a full member.

The right to use covenant resources, such as books, vis and covenfolk, lies primarily with the full members, secondarily with the associate members, and lastly with the candidate members. The needs of full members go thus before the needs of associate members and candidate members, and the needs of associate members go before the needs of candidate members.

A candidate member has the same duties and priviledges as an associate member, with the following exceptions: [/sblock]
 

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