They Killed Cap!

[Vigilance]

How many major, "A-list" Superheroes, the sorts of superhero that the typical person who isn't a comics geek and may have heard of (or seen in the movies or on TV ect.) have died and stayed dead? I can't think of one.

Especially within Marvel, who is downright notorious for the impermanent comic book death. DC has killed off or otherwise permanently lost some characters, but only to replace them with another person using the same identity (Robin, Flash, Green Lantern come to mind)

Those of us who are only casual fans of superheroic exploits still remember being burned by the whole "Death of Superman" thing, so the "Death of Captain America" comes out with skepticism. Just like if they had a "Death of Spiderman" or "Death of Batman" (not just being crippled, being confirmed dead as a doornail) plotline, people will be skeptical now.

Exactly right.

Not to mention... Cap's book is a top 5 seller again for the first time in um... 30 years?

Ed Brubaker has the character of Steve Rogers resonating again. And a lot of what is popular about the book just wouldn't work for "another Cap".

I mean... Cap is meeting the Invaders, he's fighting the Red Skull, his friendship with the Falcon has been central, his attempts to redeem Bucky, his relationship with Sharon Carter.

I realize there are folks who think anyone could fill those shoes, but as a monthly subscriber to Cap for the entire 2+ years of this relaunch, I am telling you that killing Steve Rogers would rip the guts out of that book.

So they're killing an icon who finally matters again (for the first time since Jim Steranko was drawing the book), while his book is a top 5 seller, while they have an A-List writer who signed exlcusively with Marvel (more or less) to write Captain America, Steve Rogers, a character he has publically said he adores.

It just doesn't add up, well, ever really, but in this SPECIFIC case it adds up even less.

 

[Cthulhudrew]

You make it sound like characterization is a trivial thing. For a comic book character, it's everything.

???

Not sure how I made it sound like characterization is trivial, since my point was the characterization of Cap as being out of touch in Civil War completely disregarded his past character development as someone very much interested in getting in touch with the American public...

 

[Cthulhudrew]

It just doesn't add up, well, ever really, but in this SPECIFIC case it adds up even less.

Which is why I personally suspect that Brubaker's overall arc is going to address precisely one of the issues we've been kind of discussing here, which is that Steve Rogers is Captain America, and that you can't just put the costume on anyone and have the same effect. There is more to the man, to the image, to the concept than just a pair of tights and an indestructible shield- it is the heart that Steve represents. I think we'll see that through the eyes of Bucky, Falcon, and Agent 13.

Then again, who knows what will come. Brubaker's definitely got a plan, and it's a long term one- and one he's been setting the stage for for several months now at least (he found out about Cap's death at the same infamous Marvel retreat that saw the genesis of the Civil War storyline, and that's been going on forever now.)

 

[Relique du Madde]

And in other news- Is this the new Captain America?

HA HA HA HA HA!!!


Thats funny... I hope that will not last more than two issues cause Punisher looks goofy in that outfit. Besides that, the last person I would want to become a personification of the the american ideals is the punisher...

Just think about paradigm shift that would represent... I don't think the american has gotten to the that point yet...

Never the less, it should be interesting to see how it plays out with both Punisher and Hulk hunting down Iron Man..

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Punisher lately has just been great.

I love the idea of him taking up the mantle of Cap...despite Cap pretty much hating the guy, it seemed like Frank really looked up to him(like most all the heroes, if he counts as one ). It definitely won't be permanent, but I can't wait to see what happens with this.

 

[Nuclear Platypus]

No, the next Captain America is going to be Stephen Colbert. He was given Cap's shield on the Mar 12th show by Joe Quesada because Colbert is the only one who's got the "Red, white and blue" -intestinal fortitude- to carry it. And Captain America willed it to him in the event of his death. Colbert even knew it was made from Wakandan vibranium.

Accept the truthiness of it all, not the wikiality.

 

[Felon]

Which is why I personally suspect that Brubaker's overall arc is going to address precisely one of the issues we've been kind of discussing here, which is that Steve Rogers is Captain America, and that you can't just put the costume on anyone and have the same effect. There is more to the man, to the image, to the concept than just a pair of tights and an indestructible shield- it is the heart that Steve represents.

That's an almost depressing sentiment, to think that things simply can't change for the better. You don't have to be rendered immortal to have your legend carried on.

How many major, "A-list" Superheroes, the sorts of superhero that the typical person who isn't a comics geek and may have heard of (or seen in the movies or on TV ect.) have died and stayed dead? I can't think of one.

There is little more annoying than that thought process that runs along the lines of "things have been this way, so they always will be". Is there something that makes Cap distinct from all the other heroes that have been resurrected? Yes, which is that his roots are firmly laid down in the early half of a bygone century. That's the reason for him to die and, hopefully, be re-invented as a young and vital new hero.

 

[Felon]

Flash is still dead at least, but with the time travel thing, I think he's turned up once.

Ha! Marvel so loathes the idea of leaving a superhero dead that they even brought back a character owned by DC.

Quasar #17 concerns a blonde man in a torn red outfit with yellow boots popping out of a dimensional rift, with the only thing on his mind being that he has to run like hell. He runs straight into a race being held by the Runner, and manages to blow past all the Marvel-Earth speedsters despite their head start, handily crossing the finish line first.

When asked his name, he states that he can't quite remember it, but it's something like "Buried Alien".

Fear my fanboy fu!

 

[Vigilance]

That's an almost depressing sentiment, to think that things simply can't change for the better. You don't have to be rendered immortal to have your legend carried on.


There is little more annoying than that thought process that runs along the lines of "things have been this way, so they always will be". Is there something that makes Cap distinct from all the other heroes that have been resurrected? Yes, and that is that is roots are firmly laid down in the early half of a bygone century. That's the reason for him to die and, hopefully, be re-invented as a young and vital new hero.

Nothing can change does not equal all the old heroes must go.

Sorry, but you can't catch lightning in a bottle. Characters like Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and Captain America have been around for 60-70 years and counting for a reason.

When is the new King Arthur going to get rolled out? Isn't that legend tired by now? What about the new Conan? The new Sherlock Holmes?

This isn't Ms. Marvel we're talking about here, or Ghost Rider or Iron Fist. It's Captain Freaking America.

He's been an iconic legend for decades.

And yes, things can change for him. Heck, imo things HAVE changed for him lately. He's a different character than I've seen in a long time, in a way that makes sense to me organically for the character.

If a character is played out and has no more stories to tell, I could see making a radical change. Marvel has shown a willingness to make big changes when they felt the character needed.

The Avengers were blown up and radically altered. Iron Man went through a pretty radical change in Extremis.

You might think that's what's called for here but I disagree.

As the son of a WWII veteran Cap still speaks to me and I think the generation he represents, celebrated in books, films, video games and documentaries every day still has a lot to say to most comic readers.

 

[Felon]

Sorry, but you can't catch lightning in a bottle. Characters like Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and Captain America have been around for 60-70 years and counting for a reason.

Hopefully, there'll be a new Cap and he will be executed well enough that the character will be popular enough to make the transition. Of course, if that doesn't happen, then Cap will be resussitated and killed off again at some future point, until he gets an heir with traction.

And to keep resussitating him, to perpetuate the trend of nothing ever changing permanently in the comic world, that there are no moments that last in time--man, what a pity that would be.