D&D 3E/3.5 Thoughts of a 3E/4E powergamer on starting to play 5E

[Tony Vargas]

Thanks for responding, that does make a kind of sense to me now. The last part is what has always made the difference seem rather insignificant from my perspective.

Nod. You'd think that DM license would count for more, but attitudes of the community really impact how meaningful it can be. 5e has been 'lucky' that way.

early editions often quite obviously rewarded one for avoiding combat or solving things differently (ie; gold as XP).

Acquiring treasure differently, sure.

More difficult that 5e, which I was stating probably fit the definition of "bigger tent" a lot better than 3e. 5e "caters" to both styles in the core rules, by giving the grid based options and yet not assuming their use by default.

The 'grid' is just a way of simplifying the tracking of range/area/movement/positioning, which 5e and 3e both did in feet (as did 2e, IIRC, while earlier eds used scale 'inches'). They're really identical as far as that goes. 3.5 made a point of recommending the grid, and 5e of 'defaulting' to TotM, but neither handles either grid or TotM or measured scale distance, for that matter, any better or worse (and they only handle the grid slightly differently).

In 4e for example, it is possible to run totm, but a lot of player powers make that either difficult or less satisfying to the player.

It's true that TotM has limitations when it comes to how much detail and tracking the DM can handle 'in his head' and communicate to the players without visual aids. Not consistent limitations, since some groups can handle the process more easily than others (I've run Champions! TotM, and it's more grid (technically hex) dependent than D&D has ever dreamed of being). That can make the game more difficult and less satisfying, and simply cutting the aspects of the game that TotM can't handle well is not exactly 'supporting TotM,' it's just narrowing the scope and options of the game.

It's possible to actually provide mechanical support for TotM without sacrificing as much. Examples would include Wrecan's SARN-FU variants, similar systems in various non-D&D games before that, and 13th Age, more recently, and quite D&D-adaptable.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Yup, me too. Next/5e brought me back to D&D after many many many hours sunk into WoW.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

Are people saying or implying that "includes me" equals "bigger tent"?

 

[ChrisCarlson]

Are people saying or implying that "includes me" equals "bigger tent"?

Do you believe all playstyles are equally represented in the D&D playing population?

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[thecasualoblivion]

Are people saying or implying that "includes me" equals "bigger tent"?

Do you believe all playstyles are equally represented in the D&D playing population?

The facetious answer to that would be "Are you saying or implying that 'my playstyle' equals 'most popular playstyle'?"

On a more serious note, I imagine playstyles are unevenly represented, but I don't believe either you or I or anyone for that matter really is in any position to specify how. People in this thread have said that they played AD&D, had no interest in 3E(and/or 4E), then came back to D&D when 5E was released. Who is to say there aren't lapsed 3E and/or 4E players who have little interest in 5E and have stopped playing D&D altogether? I don't believe anybody has those answers.

 

[Sacrosanct]

The facetious answer to that would be "Are you saying or implying that 'my playstyle' equals 'most popular playstyle'?"

On a more serious note, I imagine playstyles are unevenly represented, but I don't believe either you or I or anyone for that matter really is in any position to specify how. People in this thread have said that they played AD&D, had no interest in 3E(and/or 4E), then came back to D&D when 5E was released. Who is to say there aren't lapsed 3E and/or 4E players who have little interest in 5E and have stopped playing D&D altogether? I don't believe anybody has those answers.

So your position is to ignore the data we do have, because your personal preferences aren't represented in that data?

Um...OK.

 

[ChrisCarlson]

The facetious answer to that would be "Are you saying or implying that 'my playstyle' equals 'most popular playstyle'?"

If some playstyles are more popular, then "includes me" equals "bigger tent" has more validity for some over others. Would you not agree?

But as others are saying, it's hard to know for sure what you mean by "bigger tent". I may be misunderstanding you as well.

 

[Guest 6801328]

The only real data we have is that the company that has all the data apparently thought their best bet was to backpedal from the direction they took with 3.5 and 4e and go in the direction of 5e instead.

We can make disparaging comments about those decisions...and those decision-makers...all day. But, then again, we don't have any data. They do. And in their parent company's most recent annual report it sounds like it was a good decision. (If that was a lie then it was also a felony.)

 

[thecasualoblivion]

TCO,

Given that there are many (well, at least me) that are completely unclear as to what metrics you are using to define "bigger tent," and that it appears to come down to your personal observations, I think that other personal observations would be valid?

I don't see how a game is big tent when half of the responses to my OP about the conflict between how I've been playing D&D for the past 20 years and the 5E system I'm interacting with in preparation for joining an upcoming organized long term campaign have been "you should instead not play and not ruin everyone else's fun"