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D&D 5E Tiefling preview!

Remathilis

Legend
I'm guessing the "old-school" tiefling is now going to be one of the options for planetouched. Seems reasonable to me. As long as we get 'em both, I'm not too worked up over what they call them.

Where is this Planetouched race everyone is bringing up? Do they really think one race can encompass aasimars, tieflings, five different genasi, chaond, zethythri, shadowswyfts, and dozens of other variants?

One heck of a busy race.
 

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I'm A Banana

Potassium-Rich
I don't quite understand this. The Planescape tiefling is obviously setting specific. It would be a bit strange to suddenly throw a PS race into the PH. Nor does the presence of a non-PH tiefling in the core book imply that the PS flavor tiefling won't show up in the Planescape setting book.

Imagine if I got upset because the PH dwarves weren't Dark Sun dwarves or the PH halflings weren't Eberron halflings.

Sure, I follow this. The issue only really occurs because the 4e/5e critter uses a word that already had an established meaning and lore before it came along.

It would be like if I said "Halflings are meachanized tenatacled elder gods that sleep beneath the world and wait to be awoken by mad cultists."

And then insisted that this is the sole halfling narrative in my big-tent D&D game. And that if you wanted to play the "original" halfling, you could, as an option, maybe, but you might have to wait for the "Greyhawk Campaign Setting" or make a house rule, maybe because mechanized tentacled elder god halflings were once referenced in some novel or drawn in a comic book and that's BRAND RECOGNITION, baby!

It's a cool narrative, but it's not what halflings are for a lot of folks. And the original halfling is perfectly fine, so there's no real need to redefine everyone's halfling.

If they just would've been call "Asmodear" or "The Faust" or "Devil-men" or "Turathi" we wouldn't be having this conversation. They'd be fine. I'd even welcome them into PS as a race likely to take an interest in planar affairs (much as I welcomed the Eladrin as such in my first PS4e campaign). But because the 4e team had a fetish for using evocative names for unrelated creatures (which, IIRC, one of Wyatt's 5e design philosophy articles even mentioned as not a great idea), now the people who use the word with its original intent are stuck telling people that some jerks went and redefined it and isn't that confusing and wouldn't it be better if they didn't?

So maybe instead of 5e continuing the trend of pissing in the cornflakes, it could've not done that, and let Tiefling also mean what it has meant since the '90's for a lot of players, and either expanded the definition or used a different word for the Turathis. But they doubled-down on the redefinition. Which is legit to be annoyed/disapponited by. It's not like I can't get another bowl of cornflakes, but that doesn't mean you didn't ruin THIS one for me.

Of course, useless to think about what could have been now. It's said, it's done, it is the way the thing is and now until at least 6e everyone using the term as it was originally defined to a player who's read the PH is going to have to take pains to remind players that they don't have to have handlebar-heads or chair-ending tails or red skin or be related to devils or generally play Setting Police over what someone is reasonable to think the books are talking about when they say "tiefling."

Best thing to do is treat Basic As Core, and add a PS setting to it so that the PH tiefling doesn't even come up. Which is a shame -- limiting options in PS is a bit against tone. But whatever. I got this thing.
View attachment Planetouched.docx
 

am181d

Adventurer
Let's remember that the 2e/3e race was never a PHB race. I don't know that it's reasonable to suddenly expect their inclusion now when the express purpose here was to include PHB races from past editions.
 

I'm A Banana

Potassium-Rich
Let's remember that the 2e/3e race was never a PHB race. I don't know that it's reasonable to suddenly expect their inclusion now when the express purpose here was to include PHB races from past editions.

Then you don't need to call whatever these things are tieflings, if that's not what they are.
 

gyor

Legend
A tweet from Ritorix
[MENTION=17465]Wizard[/MENTION]s_DnD Thaumatury, so they can be creepy *all* the time.

That sums up reason for Tieflings getting Thaumaturgy righ there, love that qoute.
 

Dungeoneer

First Post
Sure, I follow this. The issue only really occurs because the 4e/5e critter uses a word that already had an established meaning and lore before it came along.

It would be like if I said "Halflings are meachanized tenatacled elder gods that sleep beneath the world and wait to be awoken by mad cultists."

I would be 100% okay with this. ;)

It's a cool narrative, but it's not what halflings are for a lot of folks. And the original halfling is perfectly fine, so there's no real need to redefine everyone's halfling.

...

So maybe instead of 5e continuing the trend of pissing in the cornflakes, it could've not done that, and let Tiefling also mean what it has meant since the '90's for a lot of players, and either expanded the definition or used a different word for the Turathis. But they doubled-down on the redefinition. Which is legit to be annoyed/disapponited by. It's not like I can't get another bowl of cornflakes, but that doesn't mean you didn't ruin THIS one for me.

In fact, halflings as they are described in modern D&D are quite a bit different than how they were described in OD&D. And look at GNOMES, for gods sakes! Races do in fact change over time. They get reinvented and reimagined.

In the case of Tiefling you have a moderately popular setting-specific race to start with. Then 4e came along and they were looking for exciting new races to make core, and the Tiefling got tapped as one of them. Except that the original origin for Tieflings was very Planescape-specific, so they had to reflavor it so it was a little more system agnostic. And then they put it in the PHB.

Not the PHB2 or something! No, the actual PHB that most people picked up and perused even if they didn't ultimately grok 4e. Tieflings are now very close to being a core assumption of most d20 systems. And it's the recent 'core' version that has stuck, not the version from the 1994 setting. This doesn't particularly surprise me.

If any pissing in cornflakes was done, it was done a long time ago and it's hardly fair to blame 5e for it now.

Speaking for myself - I didn't play D&D when Planescape came out, but I became aware of Tieflings I think through the Neverwinter Nights games. Almost all the Tieflings I was ever exposed to had horns, and so it seemed pretty obvious they had a bit of Old Nick in 'em (I honestly didn't know that Tieflings could NOT have horns until this thread). When 4e came out it was obvious that they had reflavored Tieflings to be a bit more terrestrial, but the addition of massive ram horns was the only thing that really stood out as weird.

I'm guessing that's most people's impressions of Tieflings at this point. And 5e seems to be very much attempting to appeal to that majority view thing.

Anyway, this seems like a bit of a tempest in a teacup to be honest. They are Tieflings, for goodness sakes. Do with them what you will.

I just want to know if 5e Dragonborn will have boobs.
 
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CM

Adventurer
Given that Pathfinder retains the 2e/3e style of tiefling (and is even more explicit about diversity in their fiendish heritage and appearance), I would doubt that.

I'm not sure how Paizo expanded on them is really relevant to WotC's interests? I'm not very well-informed on PF but didn't they appear only 2 years ago in the Advanced Race Guide? There's also about 2 million players of the Neverwinter PC game which are familiar with the Turathi tiefling. There's no telling how many also play TT but it's another potential source of new players. Finally, I know my anecdotal evidence isn't going to impress anyone, but I personally never saw a single tiefling character across a dozen or more campaigns until 4e made them core and popularized them.

Like I said it's unfortunate that the name was co-opted, but that's water under the bridge at this point.

Let's remember that the 2e/3e race was never a PHB race. I don't know that it's reasonable to suddenly expect their inclusion now when the express purpose here was to include PHB races from past editions.

Yeah, at this point it would only add to the confusion.

Edit:

Speaking for myself - I didn't play D&D when Planescape came out, but I became aware of Tieflings I think through the Neverwinter Nights games. Almost all the Tieflings I was ever exposed to had horns, and so it seemed pretty obvious they had a bit of Old Nick in 'em (I honestly didn't know that Tieflings could NOT have horns until this thread). When 4e came out it was obvious that they had reflavored Tieflings to be a bit more terrestrial, but the addition of massive ram horns was the only thing that really stood out as weird.

I'm guessing that's most people's impressions of Tieflings at this point. And 5e seems to be very much attempting to appeal to that majority view thing.

Heh. Case in point.

I just want to know if 5e Dragonborn will have boobs.

I'm guessing yes. (Dodges thrown tomatoes).
 
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Thaumaturge

Wandering. Not lost. (He/they)
I'm pretty scared of halflings now.

I like the "Virtue" names. I liked that in The Adversary (Temerity is a tiefling in that book). I might make a tiefling and name him Thaumaturge. :cool:

Thaumaturge.
 


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