Too good to be coincidence?

[AdmundfortGeographer]

yes, with a 15 con i would be toast, but its a good thing I was playing a gnome with a 20 con.

We got so many points to place and i manage to get a 18 con, (20 with racial) 18 int, and low in everything else. Con is always my number 1 concern after INT when playing a wizard.

I've seen it far too many times for it not to be coincidental, but... whenever a party is given "so many points to place" that two stats of 18 are possible that a DM has himself a party which is self-designed to break the assumed balance-point of the CR system. DM's almost always take corrective measures (so as to provide the party a challenge) that may seem like cheating... and probably are.

I'd be interested to see what "low in everything else" actually is for your gnome wizard.

It sounds like you have a DM who is not intimately familiar with the party's weaknesses (indeed, with "so many points", there may not be any weaknesses), and so instead of planning encounters ahead of time that challenge the party based on those weaknesses (which can be fun to play), he will wing-it with measures that trump the party's overwhemling srengths, like flying, invisible, fireball flinging spellcasters (which will not be fun).


Regards,
Eric Anondson

 

[Moff_Tarkin]

low in everything else means 10s and 12s

Everyone has a valid point, the DM somtimes needs to come up with stuff to challenge that untouchable character, I just dont think this is the exact way to go about it. As someone suggest before, the nilbog could learn my tactics then start taking items to allow him to fly and see invisisble, then he could go get a net that would allow him to send me plumeting to the ground. If this had happened i would say good job.

But like i said i belive (becouse of factors stated above and the fact that this was his first encounter with a flying wizard) that this was a bad idea (considering he did make it up) if your players come up with tactics that make them untouchable (like my fly, invis, prot form arrows combo) you dont make up somthing for that battle. You have your villans start to play it smarter so that next time the odds are in their favor. If you just going to make a bunch of stuff up so that one character (no matter how crafty) can get attacked, then that discourages that particular character from trying to find new ways to turn the battle to his favor by making sure his ememies have a hard or impossible time taking him down.

 

[reapersaurus]

Based on what you've related, the likelihood that this DM is not very good at combat is very high.

You have my sympathies for getting screwed like that - there is no plauible explanation for the NPC's actions other than DM-wanted-you-down.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Keep in mind that if the nilbog were cruising at ~60' above his minions, he could move above you before making his attack. The nilbog being Invisible and Flying is not bizarre at all.

But I do agree that the net thingy stinks of DM cheatin' -- not that I think that is always a bad thing. That the nilbog just happens to appear with a weird, obscure, otherwise near useless magic item at a time of maximum effectiveness is too much to believe. Especially because common sense says you will probably just be using a Fly spell.

Reapersaurus is probably right -- the DM is finding he is outmatched tactically by 8th level PCs run by so many more brains. My advice to you is: (1) Do not take it personally; you were just a convenient target; it is water under the bridge. (2) Concentrate of buffing & defensive spells (Walls, Displacement, Haste) to help the party grunts; you will be just as effective but the less flashy effects will make your PC less of a target and will not tax the DM as badly.

 

[Vahktang]

Keep in mind that if the nilbog were cruising at ~60' above his minions, he could move above you before making his attack. The nilbog being Invisible and Flying is not bizarre at all.

Yes it is.
If I'm not mistaken, flight and invisible last minutes now a days (3.5)
So, the Nilbog will have to know their plans even farther ahead of time to be in place.

My idea:
It's not a nilbog. It's a demonic type disguised as a nilbog.
Heck, an ogre magi can fly and become invisible without limit. And can polymorph into a nilbog form.

More later,

Vahktang

 

[pawsplay]

You know how the Knights of the Dinner Table are always writing notes about what they are doing and when in order to thwart the DM reacting to their tactics using metagame knowledge? Don't be like that.

Give it time. Maybe you're being screwed, maybe it's just the DM's style, maybe it's coincidence. Just keep an eye out and see if more PCs, in the end, level, or die ignoble deaths to implausible NPCs.

 

[der_kluge]

I gotta side with the player on this one. It just stinks of DM cheating to me.

I mean, I could accept that the Nilbog was flying, and I could accept that he was invisible. Now, when the wizard casts the fireball, he obviously becomes visible again, but the nilbog just coincidentally having this net seems a bit far fetched to me. A more plausible thing would be for the nilbog to attempt a grapple check on the wizard (from above) and then wrangle him to the ground. That would be a bit more believable.

But, when you kill this guy, be sure to remind the DM that you want his ring of invisibility, his boots of flying, *and* his net of snaring.

Honestly, I think some DMs let their favoritism of their BBEGs to override their mental reasoning abilities.

 

[MerakSpielman]

You know how the Knights of the Dinner Table are always writing notes about what they are doing and when in order to thwart the DM reacting to their tactics using metagame knowledge? Don't be like that.

You mean this is odd behavior for players? It's more or less common practice at my table for the players to secretly coordinate tactics. Of course, they can't secretly actually DO anything, like purchase/craft items, cast spells, or whathaveyou, but the note-passing can get heavy at times. When I go to the bathroom they are generally deep in a huddled, whispered conversation when I return, breaking off abruptly as I approach the table.

I don't mind this. It makes it easier for me, really, since I don't even have to try to not think about what they're planning.

I have to admit that, as a DM, I am not immune to metagaming. If I know a character is wearing an Amulet of Shielding, I'm probably less likely to have a mage cast magic missile on him. It's best when I totally forget what they're carrying, what they generally have memorized, etc...

Of course, the real trouble is when I have to somehow represent two NPCs interacting with each other, fighting, negotiating, whatever. I know exactly what both NPCs are thinking and planning on doing. It's hard to have them interact as though they have no such knowledge. Also, my NPC groups tend to have more coordinated tactics than the sometimes unpredictable PCs. My fighting NPCs are never individually spontanious.

 

[AeroDm]

Quite clearly everyone at the table must have realized that the DM was winging it and doing it to screw you. However, your post makes it seem like you called him out then and there and demanded to see the writeup for the entire adventure. If a player did that to me I'd tell them to shut the hell up.

Don't get me wrong. I am all against DM metagaming, cheating, and generally being a not-good DM. But it seems like this is a fledgling DM, who is trying to find the ropes. He wants to make challenging encounters and heroic PCs so he takes the easiest route: he gives you way too many points for point buy (two 18's and the rest 10-12's... at 18, 18, 12, 12, 10, 10 you have 44 points) and then cheats to force you into hard situations.

Most likely you guys all agreed at the start that a high-stat game with hard challenges sounded like a blast. So if you didn't argue when he gave you 44+ points, you really shouldn't argue when he cheats to make it hard.

If he is still learning, learn with him. Don't call him out for his cheating and make him feel like a huge jerk because the end result will be a DM who doesn't like his players and doesn't like the game. He'll quit DMing, you'll have to step up, and you can be sure he will be all over you whenever you make a mistake.

 

[Gaiden]

Could have been an illusion...