Toughness & other similar feats (from MotW)

[Amrynn Moonshadow]

I haven't really be around lately to post or to read, so maybe someone has come up with this solution already . . .

I think that if a PC takes toughness (the +3 hit points feat from the phb as we all know by now), that it should scale (automatically) with base fort save, so that it increases to dwarf's toughness all the way to dragon's toughness (or whatever if the most tough) when the pre-requisites have met.

This gives a reason to take toughness at very low levels, instead of just waiting and waiting to take a feat that gives more hit points at a later level.

Comments?

Was this already a forgone conclusion, or what? Or is it cheap, to give a feat that gives stuff that increases over time? (then again, i am sure there are other feats which are like this somewhere out there . . . )

anyway, that's what i plan on doing with those feats . . .

 

[Shard O'Glase]

I disagree. I think toughness should remain a feat for those hunting a specific pretige class or sissies who are afwaid of a widdle danger, and then if they survive because of it can say HAH, but if they don't survive because of it they wasted a feat. If it automatically upgradded it would be an incredibly useful feat for any class, and wouldn't have a downside.

 

[Magus_Jerel]

yes it would - you would have to expend one of your precious cool awesome feat slots to get this ability - instead of getting some other cool ability -

like making magic items, or doing cool things with spells - or being quicker - so you don't get whopped in the first place

When it comes to Toughness, Dodge, and Mobility - I find that unless players are EXPLICITLY looking for the feats/PrC "up the food chain" - they NEVER take them. IMHO - that is a bad thing.

 

[RogueJK]

Keep in mind that the classes that would want something like this, like the Bard, Rogue, Wizard, and Sorceror, wouldn't gain very much from it. The better Toughness feats have Base Fortitude Save prerequisites: +5 for Dwarf's, +8 for Giant's, and +11 for Dragon's.

This means any class without a good Fortitude save progression would be limited to Dwarf's Toughness, and they wouldn't get that until 15th level. At that level, 6 HPs wouldn't help you very much at all.

It could be useful to a Fighter/Wizard or the likes, though.

 

[Caliber]

Thats how it works in my campaign. That is, it scales as the Base Fort increases. My party didn't have much problem, and really the only people who it mattered to were the Cleric and the Fighters. For them, the 3 Hps were pretty much useless, but the 6 were a nice increase. The Rogue and Sorceror didn't qualify so it didn't matter.

 

[Darkness]

I wouldn't allow it to scale, I think, but I'll make my mind up when I'm confronted with it.

 

[Storminator]

I dunno. I see my players taking Toughness all over the place. At low levels 3 hps is a significant fraction of your total. Waiting until later isn't really an option if you need hp NOW!

PS

 

[milo]

At first level toughness will help a wizard or sorcerer out quite a bit. With a good con most will only have about 7 hp's with toughness that increases to 10 enough to survive most hits from a hobgoblin with a longsword that you come across

 

[Crothian]

Nothing like a dwarven wizard (con 20) with a frog familiar (+2 con) and the toughness feat (+3 HP) to start out with 13 hps!! That would be more then my first level ranger.

The thing I don't like about toughness and the skill feats, is they lose significant power with level. Yes, they will help and possible keep you alive at the lower levels, but there are so few feats one gets by the time you are 10th level you just look at that feat and go "Why did i take that?!?"

However, even after saying that I'd never let them scale up. In fact I'd like to see the other toughness feats have reguliar toughness as a prerequite. The only thing I'm thinking of changing is allowing Dwarven Defender to take Dwarven Toughess, just because of the name.

 

[JLXC]

I too use the "Scaling" Toughness. I also allow Dodge to just be a +1 to AC. I'm a softie DM. Of course the Bad Guys do it too.


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