But not all Causes are equivalent. Some Causes make you a horrible human being, no matter how polite one is about it.
D&D 5E Toxicity in the Fandom
- Thread starter James Gasik
- Start date
J.Quondam
CR 1/8
Every cause contains some jerks, but certain causes contain nothing but "jerks".*
* And I'm being very restrained by using the relatively innocuous word "jerk" in reference to those vile causes.
a.everett1287
Explorer
So, if your cause is inclusion and you're a jerk, then yeah, you're a jerk and should probably think about how to less abrasive (although, if you're arguing against someone who doesn't even see you as a person or care about including you in the hobby, go off).
If your cause is arguing against 'wokeness and PC culture' or arguing how everyone is taking too much offense, then you're not a jerk; you're an unsympathetic POS and need to reevaluate your entire life before you DO become irredeemable.
That's the difference between the causes.
Thomas Shey
Legend
One can, however, seriously question whether defending certain causes, no matter how personally polite one is, isn't pretty much toxic in and of itself, and asking for politeness in response is not a bridge too far.
Zardnaar
Legend
Aussies and kiwis get expertise.
Vaalingrade
Legend
I feel like that's still a jerk, just like the Super Saijin III of jerks.
a.everett1287
Explorer
100% correct. I meant to say 'not just a jerk.'
gnarlygninja
Explorer
I won't pretend that progressive spaces are free of unpleasant people, I've met plenty of people who do try to disguise being jerks like you're talking about. But those people are just jerks, their opposites are a lot worse
Ancalagon
Dusty Dragon
You have to realize that sometimes the statement is evidence of racism, sexism etc. For example, there were a lot of racist and sexist statements in that nuTSR Star Frontiers New Genesis PDF that Tenkar leaked... Another thing to consider is just because you didn't see what was sexist or racist about a statement or action doesn't mean it wasn't racist or sexist. We have quite a ways to go before we reach true equality, and there are things we have to be educate ourselves about.
That being said, ideally the person making those statements should have an opportunity to explain themselves or make amends.
DrunkonDuty
he/him
I dunno. I heard the C bomb a lot when I lived London. Much more than I hear it in Oz.
Jahydin
Adventurer
For what it's worth, I found most people using it derogatorily have postmodernism and/or CRT beliefs in mind.
Jahydin
Adventurer
Reading through the last few pages of this thread has got me thinking of Blaine Pardoe (Battletech author for 37 years) being let go for his far-right views and works.
His rants wouldn't put me off buying Battletech product, but curious how others feel. Specifically, is there room in the hobby for people like him too, especially considering how much he's contributed?
His latest book.
Example rant I found.
His rants wouldn't put me off buying Battletech product, but curious how others feel. Specifically, is there room in the hobby for people like him too, especially considering how much he's contributed?
His latest book.
Example rant I found.
gnarlygninja
Explorer
Based on those two examples I don't seem capable of reading his work without my eyes rolling into the back of my head, so I'd probably give it a miss. I'm not really interested in Battletech, and I've had a pretty firm policy of ignoring people who insist there's a left wing attack on America since I grew up having to listen to Rush Limbaugh though so I'm probably not the best weathervane for this.
John R Davis
Hero
Yup.
Very London centric!!
FrozenNorth
Hero
Hehehe… I thought you were referring to using the C-word.
dragoner
KosmicRPG.com
Still on them though, lumping in other things with anti-racism, and saying they are against it. If they want to make themselves look bad, fine, they are doing it.
Vaalingrade
Legend
Yeah, "Why is everyone not plugging their ears and ignoring out historic plague of racism?" is still not a non-jerk question.
payn
Legend
Is the idea that contributing to a hobby gives you allowance for a certain amount of potentially dangerous political rhetoric?
Vaalingrade
Legend
So what's the going rate? One sourcebook for... five, six incitements to violence?
Snarf Zagyg
Notorious Liquefactionist
Again, for what it's worth, I have found most people using it ("woke") derogatorily have as little idea what it means as they do postmodernism or CRT.
Which means that they are either using phrases that they don't understand as a catch-all term to cover their fear and hatred of inclusivity, or they are unthinkingly parroting phrases and should probably reflect on why they find them so objectionable.
If you think, for example, "CRT" (which is a conventional term in law schools that has become the bogey man du jour because it's been pushed by a single individual who thought that "political correctness" wasn't scary enough to flame culture wars) is something more objectionable than bigotry, hatred, and discrimination, that's probably something worthy of a little self-interrogation.
More importantly, I think it's important to bring this back into the context of the OP. The great thing about TTRPGs when I was growing up is that it was inclusive for many people that were considered outcasts at the time. Sure, "geek culture" is the new hotness now, but it wasn't that way when D&D started. TTRPGs were a welcoming place for people that didn't fit in elsewhere. That it wasn't always welcoming to some (women, POC, LGBTQA+, etc.) doesn't mean that when we think fondly back on the good aspects of older games, we carry with it the baggage of that exclusion.
In short, we should celebrate the legacy of this hobby by continuing to making it as inclusive as possible for as many people as possible.
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