Traditional Buffy Spoilers Thread (11/05)

[N Hammer]

Very well? It was never explained at all. She met and Tara and it was basically "I think I'll be gay now." There was lead up to it at all, and no evil vampire Willow from the ALTERNATE dimension doesn't count.

What's to be explained?...We saw it play out in the show....

Wilow and Tara met and had a lot of things in common (feeling like they didn't fit in, witchcraft)...Over many episodes they became friends and grew closer...They realized there is an attraction and fell in love.....I didn't see any problems.

Now if they would have met in the beginning of the episode and were playing the licking game in the holiest of holies by the end of the episode, then I'd bitched (between my school boy giggles )...but the relationship was built and played out over many episodes.

 

[Crothian]

And why wouldn't the alternate Willow count?

 

[KnowTheToe]

What's to be explained?...We saw it play out in the show....

Wilow and Tara met and had a lot of things in common (feeling like they didn't fit in, witchcraft)...Over many episodes they became friends and grew closer...They realized there is an attraction and fell in love.....I didn't see any problems.

My point is that she had many more episodes about her heterosexual feelings. There was never any hints of her hiding her real sexuality. I did not think the change was neccessary, added anything to the show or made her character more believable or likeable. I am sure it helped ratings and made Joss happy, but it was a load of crap as far as consistant character developement goes.

Joss chose to change a character, I thought was fine. His choice, I disagree. As I said in an earlier post or another thread, the realtionship was done well, but it seemed like a ratings play or a political correct statement, neither of which I look for in anything I read or watch.

 

[Umbran]

Joss chose to change a character, I thought was fine. His choice, I disagree. As I said in an earlier post or another thread, the realtionship was done well, but it seemed like a ratings play or a political correct statement, neither of which I look for in anything I read or watch.

It seemed to me a realistic depiction of a person who happened to find out something about themselves that they didn't fully realize before. It happens. *shrug*

 

[Crothian]

It seemed to me a realistic depiction of a person who happened to find out something about themselves that they didn't fully realize before. It happens. *shrug*

That's pretty much as I see it.

 

[John Crichton]

It seemed to me a realistic depiction of a person who happened to find out something about themselves that they didn't fully realize before. It happens. *shrug*

Works for me. Happens in real life. Willow was pretty sheltered for a while, there. She made a connection with someone else who she fell in love with. Gender simply didn't matter at that point. And in the end, she obviously preferred things that way.

Didn't seem to me like Joss was trying to do anything to the character. Looked like a natural transition to me.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

How came it that Xander und Anya fell in love? I can`t remember the details that lead to this, anyway, no one is complaining about it.

It is a typical problem, I think - if everybody behaves quite "normal" (and heterosexualismn is considered normal - because most people are hetero), no one asks. But if something "anormal" happens, many begin to question it.

(It reminds of a discussion between Paramount officials and the responsible ones for Startrek Voyager, and that Paramount didn`t want the creators to concentrate on a female captain, because this would somehow reduce the possibilities for the actor to choose for the role, since it couldn`t be a man - something like that.)

Here in Germany, we are one season behind you in America, so I might remember the beginnings a bit better than some of you (but I doubt it). I watched nearly every episode, and I didn`t find the relationship between Willow and Tara very suprising/unusual or a severe change in her character.
Her first love was a Werewolf, her second a witch... There is no real pattern that could have been broken.
If you count Xander as a love -
(though you could also see the tension between them as a misinterpreted friendship in a time of their life, where they still have to explore emotions) -
there are two possible patterns:
Willow is ... "parasexuell" (meaning she likes creatures with paranormal abilities, like Werewolfs or witches), or she is heterosexual (she likes men).

Mustrum Ridcully

 

[Pielorinho]

Well, Willow's attraction to Tara didn't surprise everyone -- a year before it happened, there was an article in Salon saying, "Oh, just make her gay already!" Some people were expecting it, fer sure.

Remember, though, when Oz came back to Sunnydale, and Willow wasn't sure what to do about it? I get the impression that this (fictional, let's not forget) character's sexuality has got a lot more to do with individuals than with plumbing. I'd find it totally plausible for her next romantic interest to be either male or female, although she (and Joss) would experience a lot more grief were they male.

(Lemme clarify that last bit: if Willow chases after a guy, she's gonna get the angstiness of wondering what exactly she is. If Joss allows her character to date a guy, he's going to be accused of hypocrisy, ratings-pandering, and submitting to the will of political forces -- pretty much exactly what he was accused of when Willow became involved with Tara.)

 

[Henry]

I'll second Pielorinho's statement. The character developed naturally such that she could technically be called bisexual - it wasn't about gender for willow, it was about friendship and intimacy. I'll also agree that there is a huge amount of childishness going on with regards to various activist groups. Whether Willow's next love is male, female, or Clem, W & T's relationship was STILL the best-portrayed and most tastefully handled homosexual relationship on Television.

As far as the development being sudden, I have to disagree, myself. Anyone remember the "I think I'm kinda gay" comment from season 3, regarding the Vampire Willow version? Angel hinted that many of a person's base characteristics still show through in a vampire - in other words, assuming the alternate willow was exactly like "our" Willow, then the possiblity has always been there. The drama with Tara, while not exactly year-long, did take place over about 5 or 6 episodes, and the episode in season 4 with Oz's return, I think perfectly played out her realization that all that time spent talking and doing spells with Tara late into the night meant far more than she at first wanted to admit.

(Buffy's reaction in that episode - "What, Will? What do you mean, WILL?" - still cracks me up. I personally think it was a nod both to the stereotypical friend who doesn't know how to handle such a revelation, and also a nod to Will and Grace, but I could be mistaken.)

 

[Storminator]

I also thought the transition to gay Willow was far from sudden. And even then, there was a phase where Willow wasn't exactly a lesbian, she was just in love with Tara. It was only later episodes that she talked about being gay. I thought it was pretty smooth.

And the line about overlooking that RJ was a man proved her love was stronger was classic.

PS