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Transformers

Felon

First Post
The Serge said:
First, there were waaaaay too many secondary characters running around. We have the chick that discovers the message and then pulls in her cyber-geek friend, to the army guys, to the Sector 7 guys, to Sam and the chick, to the Autobots and Decepticons. Waaaay too many characters, most of whom weren't necessary.
Well, while they weren't "necessary" per se, but I did feel that each one those characters added to the plot. You've got Spike (or "Sam") as the everyman hero; you've got the love interest; you've got the brainiac who figures things out and makes plans; you've the tough take-charge boy scout; and finally you've the pain-in-the-neck bureaucrat who's there to provide the protagonists with something they can overcome without relying on the robots.

I mean, you could say Star Wars didn't need all those characters. Could've dropped Chewbacca or the droids. And Lord of the Rings, geez, talk about superfluous characters...You can easily collapse skills and roles in order to create fewer characters, but a big cast feels epic. The Day After Tomorrow, Armageddon, Independence Day...think about movies like that and how many extraneous characters they had just to add a little flavor.

While the Transformers were cool, we saw too little of them in action, particularly the Decepticons. Essentially, the Decepticons show up to get slaughtered and that's that. The only Decepticons we get a feel for are Frenzy and Megatron... Aside from the one comment Megatron makes to Starscream, we've no idea about their inter-relationships. Now, I'm not saying we needed a lot, but it wouldn't have taken much to give some of the Decepticons a little more oomph.
True, the Decepticons never even muster. Their interactions pretty much consist of briefly talking over radio about getting the ball rolling. Barricade was the face of the Decepticons early in the film ("To Protect and Enslave"...gotta love it!), but then he falls off the radar.

OTOH, there is very much a "less is more" element to rock'em sock'em robots. Heck, even in the cartoon, the fights usually weren't protracted. Generally one solid hit from a blaster would take a bot down.

Now, Prime was cool. My major issue with him was how much difficulty he had taking on Megatron... That ticked me off. I've always preferred the approach being Optimus having greater natural fighting skill compared to Megatron having slightly greater fire-power and willingness to "cheat."
Did prime even have his giant exhaust-pipe gun?
 

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The Serge

First Post
Felon said:
Well, while they weren't "necessary" per se, but I did feel that each one those characters added to the plot. You've got Spike (or "Sam") as the everyman hero; you've got the love interest; you've got the brainiac who figures things out and makes plans; you've the tough take-charge boy scout; and finally you've the pain-in-the-neck bureaucrat who's there to provide the protagonists with something they can overcome without relying on the robots.
They could have collapsed the brainiac with her buddies and the black guy (which, as an African American, I thought his inclusion was actually not forced or strained). Heck, they should have had her be one of the analysts working in NSA, not some hire. That would have eliminated one character. The same for the Sector 7 guys. Gone or have them show up from the beginning... This would have eliminated the need for Tuuro's character and/or Voigt's character if they made him a high ranking agent. That was an extra level of plot that was utterly meaningless.

I mean, you could say Star Wars didn't need all those characters. Could've dropped Chewbacca or the droids. And Lord of the Rings, geez, talk about superfluous characters...You can easily collapse skills and roles in order to create fewer characters, but a big cast feels epic. The Day After Tomorrow, Armageddon, Independence Day...think about movies like that and how many extraneous characters they had just to add a little flavor.
Chewbacca and the droids provided a bit of levity in the proceedings and their characters didn't take up much unnecessary space/scenes (arguably the droids do near the beginning, but my thought on them is that they're there to get the audience from the Blockade Runner to Tatooine and Luke... They kind of drop out after we meet Luke). And in LotRs, most of those characters are actually featured prominently in relatively important scenes... Furthermore, they're characters adapted from a book and it's difficult to excise them without drawing fan ire; such is not the case in Transformers since we're dealing with no more than two prominent human protagonists from the cartoon or comic miniseries who (sort of) make it to the flick.

As for your other examples, I hated all of those movies in part because of the large casts (The Day After Tomorrow gets something of a pass since the effects were so cool). :p


True, the Decepticons never even muster. Their interactions pretty much consist of briefly talking over radio about getting the ball rolling. Barricade was the face of the Decepticons early in the film ("To Protect and Enslave"...gotta love it!), but then he falls off the radar.
Apparently, Prime was written to have killed him but that portion was edited from the script. To me, the face of the Decepticons was initially Blackout and then Frenzy, so -- although I noticed that Barricade disappeared -- I wasn't too bumbed out about it.

More than anyone else, I missed Starscream playing a more prominent role. Of the Decepticons, he's my favorite after Soundwave (well, he actually like him as much as Megatron), so I was miffed that he didn't speak more.

OTOH, there is very much a "less is more" element to rock'em sock'em robots. Heck, even in the cartoon, the fights usually weren't protracted. Generally one solid hit from a blaster would take a bot down.
But the 'toons were 20 minutes or so with five minute fights, usually two a piece for 10 minutes. That's have the show of fighting. This didn't have that. Now, I'm not saying that I wanted a bunch of fighting, but more interaction between the Decepticons would have been nice.


Did prime even have his giant exhaust-pipe gun?
Yes, and Megatron did create a canon, although it wasn't like the big, honking thing he used in the cartoon series.
 

The Grumpy Celt

Banned
Banned
So, Hugo Weaving voiced Megatron. Well, now we know what happened to Agent Smith’s program.

I don’t want big robots talking about my pheromone levels.

Why didn’t my Dad buy me a big honking car robot from space?

If
temp’s of 6K or high damage them, then why not drop the ‘Cons into the big volcano in
Hawaii?

The
soda machine, desk top computer and angry suburban awakened by the Allspark seem to have been unaccounted
for at the end.

Cullen was so cool, some of my gray haired turned back to brown.
 


Klaus said:
For a sequel, I have two words.

Shock.

Wave.

As long as he turns into something other than a big honkin' ray gun, I could live with that. But I think the days of 30-foot robots transforming into objects small enough to hold in the palm of the hand are (rightfully, and not a moment too soon) over with.

(Or else they could make Shockwave tiny, like they did Frenzy, but I don't see that going over well. ;))
 

Mouseferatu said:
As long as he turns into something other than a big honkin' ray gun, I could live with that. But I think the days of 30-foot robots transforming into objects small enough to hold in the palm of the hand are (rightfully, and not a moment too soon) over with.

(Or else they could make Shockwave tiny, like they did Frenzy, but I don't see that going over well. ;))
I've seen it mentioned that they will do mass-shifting transformers IF they can get it to work right. Honestly, I'd doubt it because of how awkward it is, but who knows. I did read somewhere about Bay wanting to put an Aircraft Carrier transformer into a movie, which could be interesting.

Honestly, I just ask for more Starscream. :p
 


The Grumpy Celt said:
And Astrotrain....

That would be the best way to get me to skip the movie entirely. Or rather, I could possibly tolerate the character, as long as they change the bloody name!!

Stupidest moniker in the history of language. :p
 

Halivar

First Post
My experience with Transformers is probably different that a lot of others here, since while I watched Transformers season #1 and the movie, my further experiences after that were solely through the Marvel comic book (I lived in Germany, and the cartoon was not played, but the comics were available).

1) Megatron dies somewhere around issue #8 (at the hands of Ratchet), and doesn't resurface until near the end of the comic (where he dies again at the hands of Ratchet). Thus, my iconic big-baddies are Ratbat, Scorponok, Shockwave, and Starscream.

2) Optimus died three issues before I started collecting. Most of the Marvel run was with the Autobots in civil war between the tyrannical Grimlock (the self-styled King of the Autobots) and Spike Witwicky, aka Fortress Maximus (I swear, it's true... go get the toy... the head transforms into Spike). In my early childhood, Spike Witwicky was my hero, as opposed to Optimus (because his transformer was bigger and had more guns, and he wasn't dead). Spike was also the one who blew Galvatron to smithereens in the very last issue.

3) The biggest rivalry was not Optimus vs. Megatron... it was Ratchet vs. Megatron. Ratchet killed Megatron three times in the comic book, and is the only Autobot to do so. As the Autobot pacifist, he was the perfect protagonist to pit against the belligerent Decepticon leader.

What I want from the next movie:

1) I wanna see another Decepticon leader. Hopefully Shockwave.

2) I wanna see Fortress Maximus. I wanna see Sam transform into his friggin' head.

3) I wanna see Ratchet get more screen time. Ratched freakin' rocks and you guys just don't know how much.
 


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