Transumuting weapons and the DR/xEpic

[Vegepygmy]

Being epic or not is not a property of a weapon.

Please tell us where in the rulebooks we can find the definition of "property" that you're relying on to make this argument. Absent that, I think you're just making stuff up.

 

[Jhaelen]

Being epic or not is not a property of a weapon. There is no "Epic" enchantment, like there is a Holy enchantment; nor can your weapon be made of "Epic", as it can be made of Adamantine. "Epic" is merely the name you tack onto any weapon that is a certain amount of 'powerful'.

That reasoning is definitely flawed. "Adamantine" is not an enchantment either. A weapon cannot ever become 'adamantine' unless it was originally made from adamantite. A weapon can definitely become 'epic' by adding enchantments to it, though.

Apples/Oranges/Cucumbers. There's no rule to be derived from any of these comparisons.

Imho, in the end it's a simple question of balance: Do you (as the DM) feel it is balanced to allow a 'transmuting' weapon to emulate an 'epic' weapon or not?

For me the answer is clear: It's not.

 

[Empirate]

That reasoning is definitely flawed. "Adamantine" is not an enchantment either. A weapon cannot ever become 'adamantine' unless it was originally made from adamantite. A weapon can definitely become 'epic' by adding enchantments to it, though.

Right, a weapon must be made from adamantine to 'be considered adamantine'. That's why I said so...

Also, you can enchant a weapon so it's 'considered adamantine' - using the Metalline enchantment.

Apples/Oranges/Cucumbers. There's no rule to be derived from any of these comparisons.

Imho, in the end it's a simple question of balance: Do you (as the DM) feel it is balanced to allow a 'transmuting' weapon to emulate an 'epic' weapon or not?

For me the answer is clear: It's not.

Seeing as Transmuting is merely a +2 enchantment (the same as metalline, actually), which is definitely within the range of non-epic magic, I don't see how it would be balanced to allow it to overcome epic DR. However, I also don't see the rules allowing it.

I am not relying on a rules-technical definition of 'property' here, btw. Just good old common sense: being epic is a measure of the quantity of a weapon's power rather than the quality of that power, if you catch my drift.
Regarding making stuff up: maybe - I'm just trying to come up with a reasoning to explain something that seems very plain to me.

 

[Sepulchrave II]

Reading the description (MIC, p.45), it seems the "epic" question was likely not considered when the property was devised.

I'm sympathetic to the notion that the spirit of the rules do not extend to 'epic,' regardless of the technical language. An 'epic' weapon is 720K and upwards.

That said, I'd allow it because:

1) You have to score a successful hit before the bypass all damage reduction ability kicks in.

2) Think about when this is going to be relevant. Probably when a martial character is around 18th-25th level, and can't afford a +6 sword. These guys need all the help they can get.

 

[Vegepygmy]

Regarding making stuff up: maybe - I'm just trying to come up with a reasoning to explain something that seems very plain to me.

Fair enough. I hope I didn't come off too snarky.

 

[Jhaelen]

Also, you can enchant a weapon so it's 'considered adamantine' - using the Metalline enchantment.

Oops, I stand corrected then.

Cheers!