D&D 5E Treantmonk's Guide to Wizards 5e

[Blue]

The bladesinger extra attack can be used with a longbow, so it is not wasted. And the Longbow is surely better than a firebolt if you favor DEX over INT.

But you can't be using the Bladesong while using a longbow. Bladesong ends if you make an attack with a weapon with two hands. And on the equipment chart the longbow has the two-handed property.

The only ranged weapons that can be used with the Bladesong active are various one-handed thrown, the sling, and the hand crossbow.

Now, the last could be flavorful for drow, and the rapier+crossbow would have the Crossbow Master feat trigger with the attack cantrips like like Green Flame Blade.

 

[Treantmonklvl20]

I was attempting to refer to baseline damage without expenditure of resources. Once you start throwing in the latter, you're going to have to start comparing Fighter attack abilities to fireballs, which the Bladesinger is still plenty capable of. If you want to argue that the Bladesinger as presented doesn't fit your personal image of what it has been previously, that's fine. One can't really argue with the subjective nature of opinions. HOWEVER, from a design standpoint, the Eldritch Knight already occupies the role of the melee combatant with a bit of arcane spell support. Whereas the Bladesinger approaches things from the other side - a spellcaster with a touch of melee support. As it remains primarily a caster, the Bladesinger's melee ability is a cantrip alternative, not a major offensive mode.

(PS: Haste is an unimpressive and risky melee buff when you're also the caster; might fare better with Greater Invisibility or Polymorph if that counts by level 10)

I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head. If they hadn't called this character option the "bladesinger" and put in the fluff about melee in the description, I would have no problem with the subclass at all.

The title "Bladesinger" to me suggests an elven wizard fighter hybrid with a sword. You can ABSOLUTELY still make an elven wizard fighter hybrid with a sword, but just not by taking ONLY levels in bladesinger.

If I play a bladesinger, I would likely multiclass (probably with Paladin as per Mellowred's excellent suggestion earlier) to provide that effect. I don't have a problem with that, as Bladesingers have traditionally been multiclassed right from their 2e inception.

My evaluation is a warning to anyone who thinks that by taking the bladesinger option and grabbing a sword and heading into melee that they will have an effective melee combatant. It requires more optimization than that, despite the name "bladesinger" and the description at the beginning of the option.

 

[Treantmonklvl20]

all in all, i see bladesinger being on par with abjuration.

I agree, and I saw a similarity between the schools immediately. Again, I think the Bladesinger is a pretty good subclass, I just don't think it's a subclass that does a lot for your melee offense (which the name "bladesinger" as well as the tradition of that title imply).

Defensively, it's fantastic.

 

[mellored]

I agree, and I saw a similarity between the schools immediately. Again, I think the Bladesinger is a pretty good subclass, I just don't think it's a subclass that does a lot for your melee offense (which the name "bladesinger" as well as the tradition of that title imply).

Defensively, it's fantastic.

The cantrips, along with other wizard spells like greater invisibility, haste, enlarge/reduce, magic weapon, or fairy fire, do enough for melee offense.

You just don't normally get to use them because your too squishy without bladesinger (or abjuration).

 

[Treantmonklvl20]

The cantrips, along with other wizard spells like greater invisibility, haste, enlarge/reduce, magic weapon, or fairy fire, do enough for melee offense.

You just don't normally get to use them because your too squishy without bladesinger (or abjuration).

Yep, you can have up any one of those buffs (except Faerie Fire of course not a wiz spell), but you can only have up 1 (until Foresight, but that's level 17+ only)

I would point out that lots of other classes have great melee self buffs, in addition to other offensive capabilities. Many of them can also take the cantrips, and benefit more from them as well.

As for your dwarf-abjurer idea, let us know how it turns out. Personally, I would be skeptical that the abjuration shield will cover the lack of shield, heavy armor, hp of other melee characters, but I could be wrong. As mentioned, the Maul isn't going to fly unless your DM makes a house-rule for you. Personally, if I was the DM, I probably would because the idea seems fun. I would probably call him a "runecrafter" or something to give it that dwarven feel.

 

[Huntsman57]

Haste is not too dangerous if your concentration and defense is good enough. Which may be questionable or not. I believe the bladesinger is fine with haste. Depends on the situation.
The only real concern is extra attack not mixing well with the new cantrips. But as a weapon user it may come in handy in different situations.

Yea, most things aren't going to drive your concentration save higher than DC10, and with lets say CON resilience, Warcaster, and the innate SS ability, you're realistically going to have +8 with advantage by 8th level to +13 with advantage by 19th level.

Above 17th level, we get to cast Shield and Misty Step forever at 18th level, though I don't really see an advantage to the 20th level wizard ability so I would probably throw a level of fighter in there for dueling and get the +2 damage.

By 20th level (without magical items) we have a character that looks like this...

3 attack @ 1d8+10 damage (while hastened and with advantage from Foresight)
1 attack @ 1d8+ 2 damage if we use our bonus action for an offhand attack

That's an average of about 50 DPR if all the attacks hit, and more like an average of 62 DPR if magical items are thrown into the mix.

AC21 (AC26 as long as I have a reaction available with infinite Shield spells) and the enemy attacks with disadvantage with Foresight. With magical items thrown into the mix we are going to basically be unhittable

The ability to blip around the battlefield as a bonus action with Misty Step without using spell slots

A substantial hit point buff from the ability to convert spell slots

incredible role flexibility from a full 9 levels of spells

 

[mellored]

I would point out that lots of other classes have great melee self buffs, in addition to other offensive capabilities. Many of them can also take the cantrips, and benefit more from them as well.

Sure, but those classes don't have fireball, or all the other wizard goodies.

As for your dwarf-abjurer idea, let us know how it turns out. Personally, I would be skeptical that the abjuration shield will cover the lack of shield, heavy armor, hp of other melee characters, but I could be wrong. As mentioned, the Maul isn't going to fly unless your DM makes a house-rule for you. Personally, if I was the DM, I probably would because the idea seems fun. I would probably call him a "runecrafter" or something to give it that dwarven feel.

Well i'll probably go half-orc and dip cleric for heavy armor and shield. Relentless endurance makes a good backup if i'm caught with my shield down.

But now i have 2 good options to run around as a melee tank wizard.

 

[mellored]

Above 17th level, we get to cast Shield and Misty Step forever at 18th level, though I don't really see an advantage to the 20th level wizard ability so I would probably throw a level of fighter in there for dueling and get the +2 damage.

By 20th level (without magical items) we have a character that looks like this...

3 attack @ 1d8+10 damage (while hastened and with advantage from Foresight)
1 attack @ 1d8+ 2 damage if we use our bonus action for an offhand attack

You can't use TWF and mysty step on the same turn.

Though booming blade + misty step is very good. Much easier to trigger the extra damage, and on a single target rather then spread out.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

But you can't be using the Bladesong while using a longbow. Bladesong ends if you make an attack with a weapon with two hands. And on the equipment chart the longbow has the two-handed property.

The only ranged weapons that can be used with the Bladesong active are various one-handed thrown, the sling, and the hand crossbow.

Now, the last could be flavorful for drow, and the rapier+crossbow would have the Crossbow Master feat trigger with the attack cantrips like like Green Flame Blade.

Yes. But extra attack is independent from bladesong.
You should not use a bow when bladesong is active.
If you happen to be a drow or half drow you can use a hand crossbow instead. With crossbow expert even more. You even add dex to the extra attack...
It is just another possibility.
As I said: you have a lot more options with a bladesinger.

A little more offensive abilities at earlier levels would have been nice... as well as an ability to use the longsword as a finesse weapon, because wvery strength dependent weapon is inferior to dex based weapons. This is maybe the major flaw.
In 2e you had a one handed fighting style called bladesong which allowed you to add damage or AC.
I was hoping that the sidebar fighting styles would have been fighting style variations for a fighter.

My take:
- you can use any one handed weapon with dexterity to hit and damage as long as your off hand is free.
- you get an attack roll dependent cantrip of your choice
- you get a +2 bonus to either damage or AC as long as your offhand is free and you are only wearing light armor or no armor.

 

[Celtavian]

I hope most on here know fireball isn't that great at higher level or for single target damage. fireball is great AoE damage, but not on par at all for single target damage. Martials or warlock/sorlock all the way for dealing damage. Though I do have this crazy warlock/paladin build I'm trying out that should do some crazy damage.