D&D 5E Treantmonk's Guide to Wizards 5e

[FormerlyHemlock]

Moreover mathematically as far as stats go the only real viable dips for a Bladesinger (unless you're entirely min-maxing by starting at paladin1 [which I'd veto out of principle]) are rogue and fighter.

Starting in a class doesn't exempt you from multiclassing prereqs, if that's what you're suggesting.

 

[LarenF3D5]

Starting in a class doesn't exempt you from multiclassing prereqs, if that's what you're suggesting.

It doesn't? I didn't see anything in the PHB that actually required you to make the stat reqs for your first class. Though it may say in the MC section that you need to meet the pre-reqs for both. I don't have the PHB in front of me but if you could point me to that note I'd appreciate it.

Thanks!

 

[TwoSix]

It doesn't? I didn't see anything in the PHB that actually required you to make the stat reqs for your first class. Though it may say in the MC section that you need to meet the pre-reqs for both. I don't have the PHB in front of me but if you could point me to that note I'd appreciate it.

http://www.5esrd.com/classes#TOC-Multiclassing

It's under the "Prerequisites" header.

 

[Pickles III]

I. Though it may say in the MC section that you need to meet the pre-reqs for both.

It does p163

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

It doesn't? I didn't see anything in the PHB that actually required you to make the stat reqs for your first class. Though it may say in the MC section that you need to meet the pre-reqs for both. I don't have the PHB in front of me but if you could point me to that note I'd appreciate it.

Thanks!

PHB 163, Prerequisites. "To qualify for a new class, you must meet the ability score prerequisites for both your current class and your new class, as shown in the Multiclassing Prerequisites table."

 

[LarenF3D5]

Oh yeah, look at that. I also found it in the SRD-OGL document.

Then yeah, the paladin dip is functionally of no value at all IMO.

Thanks for the clarification guys.

 

[NADRIGOL]

Hmm... I had also overlooked the "both classes" stats aspect of multiclassing in 5e. While it doesn't affect my fighter/bladesinger, I'd be interested to hear how TreantMonk made it work with his PallySinger... 13,14,11,14,8,13. He mentioned longswords several times, so maybe he built strength with its drawbacks 14,12,12,14,8,13. I'm not sure how I'd go about it. Would be interested to hear how he did it.

 

[Treantmonklvl20]

What you seem to be saying is that the traditional Bladesinger should not have been a Wizard subclass, as that way it is doomed to have 9th level spells.

So assuming they did not want to introduce a full class gish half caster fighter, maybe it's intended that you multiclass to get the feel of the 2e kit?

Or maybe since that was OP as hell it should just be full fighter with level 9 spells

I think if they added in the description of Bladesinger that most Bladesingers are multiclassed Wizard/Something martial, no mechanical fix is required.

My primary concern with the class, isn't that it doesn't provide some excellent abilities, it's that, without multiclassing, those abilities don't work as advertised.

If the mechanics are "just right" for a Bladesinger, the decision to use a weapon or cast a spell on any given round shouldn't be heavily weighted one way or the other. If attacking with the weapon is always suboptimal to casting a spell, they've made spellcasting too good as well as weapon ability too poor. As I mention, easily fixed with a Multiclass, but does everyone who goes to play this class expecting a traditional Bladesinger know that?

 

[Treantmonklvl20]

Hmm... I had also overlooked the "both classes" stats aspect of multiclassing in 5e. While it doesn't affect my fighter/bladesinger, I'd be interested to hear how TreantMonk made it work with his PallySinger... 13,14,11,14,8,13. He mentioned longswords several times, so maybe he built strength with its drawbacks 14,12,12,14,8,13. I'm not sure how I'd go about it. Would be interested to hear how he did it.

This is an excellent point. I made it work because my DM relaxed the multiclassing requirement. With stat array it's a nightmare to qualify, can be done with point buy, not it's still not pretty.

If he hadn't relaxed the requirement, I would have dipped a single fighter level (which I did qualify for) and grabbed TWF. I would have played with the idea of a couple more levels fighter and grab battlemaster for the combat tricks/superiority dice. Wiz 16/Fighter 4 I suspect would work reasonably well.

I may end up with 4 levels paladin eventually, as Vengeance paladin particularly fits this campaign (our home city was wiped out by demons and we're out for revenge)

 

[Pickles III]

Isn't using a weapon just an upgrade to your at will attack though, at the cost of pushing DEX? (and melee being a bit dangerous but archery not especially so)

It seems to me they have the same choice a a normal wizard - at will attacks or turn it on with spells.

They could have been designed with higher levels of at will damage & much less spell use say as a half caster that gets improved functionality from the new cantrips, but they were not.

As to traditional Bladesinger fans, well they should realise they have to give up something for full casting, like some wizard levels (though wasn't it for fighter/MUs in 2e too?)

A very enjoyable guide by the way!