D&D 5E Treantmonk's Guide to Wizards 5e

[Ovarwa]

Something I stumbled across just now that I don't think has been mentioned is Polearm Master and War Caster synergy. When wielding a quarterstaff you can make an opportunity attack on an opponent that enters your reach. And War Caster allows you to use a single target spell vs. an enemy that provokes an attack of opportunity. There's something to be said for being able to cast an "action" spell with a reaction is pretty cool, but it might not be worth a feat selection. Still, it would be pretty funny to levitate a jerk that was charging you. - Eck

A charisma-based caster might cast Friends as a go-to: "These are not the droids you're looking for." Anyway, Ken

 

[johnlent]

Something I stumbled across just now that I don't think has been mentioned is Polearm Master and War Caster synergy. When wielding a quarterstaff you can make an opportunity attack on an opponent that enters your reach. And War Caster allows you to use a single target spell vs. an enemy that provokes an attack of opportunity. There's something to be said for being able to cast an "action" spell with a reaction is pretty cool, but it might not be worth a feat selection.

Still, it would be pretty funny to levitate a jerk that was charging you.

- Eck

This does not work according to the designers. See: https://www.sageadvice.eu/2014/09/16/polearm-caster/ and https://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/09/19/war-caster-feat/

Basically, you need to make the attack granted from PAM with polearm you are wielding.

 

[smbakeresq]

Glad the health scare is passed. As someone else that has been probed... I feel your pain.

You hit on the one thing I think guides like this are lacking: Guidance on managing spells available, spells known, spells prepared and spell slot usage. When does it make sense to add another class or feature to gain access to spells no on the wizard list? What spells do you want to select when advancing levels and creating the characters? When to take them? At any given level, what are your regularly prepared spells? What spells are worth learning because you may want to prepare them once in a while? What spells do you prepare between adventure in town? Also, how does the need fo concentration alter your list of prepared spells? That is where a guide that helps new wizards learn their way would be most helpful.

Spell slot management is also DM dependent on how many short rests he allows. In my groups (as a player and DM) you never know outside of it will be 4-6 encounter before a short rest and even then that SR might be interrupted. In our case cantrips and rituals get HEAVY use and are highly valued to expand slots.

Also the group assumes and details to the DM important downtime stuff as managing spell books and consumable item creation. Searching out rituals is also important, I would never prepare water breathing but I will always have it ready in ritual form.

As a wizard you have to do a lot of thinking for the party and communicate that to the DM and group. Ritual casting is an exclusive feature that costs nothing but time and effort to abuse, if you are not abusing it you are doing it wrong.

 

[jgsugden]

There is a lot of different things that go into the balance of what to learen, when to learn it, how to learn it, what to prepare, when to prepare, what to devote concentration to, what rituals are worth preparing, etc... It is a complex weave with some campaign specific elements (such as how often the party long rests, how often you can acquire new spells, etc...), but there are some universal considerations as well (even if your DM is a one battle per LR guy usually, you need to be prepared for that 6 encounter with no short rest day he throws at you once in a while)

While I enjoy Treatmonk's guide, the most useful guide I've seen (that was for another game) was a step by step walkthrough of a character's life. In it, the author walked through character creation, advancement, etc... and talked about the decision making process whenever the PC made meaningful decisions. Within it, the context of decision making was evident - which is something that is hard to account for whe you're just talking about whether something is good or bad.

For example, there are a dozen great third level spells - fireball, dispel magic, counterspell, fly, leomund's tiny hut, hypnotic pattern, gaseous form, major image, haste, tiny servant, etc... - which do you learn first? I always want major image - but it isn't a priority until 11th level when I can make it permanent. Personally, with all three of my wizards in 5E my first two 3rd level spells always included Leomund's Tiny Hut. For the other spell one wizard went fireball, another hypnotic pattern and the laste haste. However, by 8th level, all three PCs had nearly identical 3rd level spells in their books. My enchanter took fireball because he had too many concentration spells. My diviner took hypnotic pattern because he didn't have as many concentration spells and the group had other high damage PCs. The last took haste because we faced a lot of solos, he was squishy and he best thing for the group was to haste the paladin and hide.

 

[jgsugden]

It is also worth noting in Major Image, by the way, that it stops being a concentration spell when you use a 6th level slot. Being able to create an illusion that does not require your concentration can be worth a 6th level slot, at times, in combat.

 

[smbakeresq]

There is a lot of different things that go into the balance of what to learen, when to learn it, how to learn it, what to prepare, when to prepare, what to devote concentration to, what rituals are worth preparing, etc... It is a complex weave with some campaign specific elements (such as how often the party long rests, how often you can acquire new spells, etc...), but there are some universal considerations as well (even if your DM is a one battle per LR guy usually, you need to be prepared for that 6 encounter with no short rest day he throws at you once in a while)

While I enjoy Treatmonk's guide, the most useful guide I've seen (that was for another game) was a step by step walkthrough of a character's life. In it, the author walked through character creation, advancement, etc... and talked about the decision making process whenever the PC made meaningful decisions. Within it, the context of decision making was evident - which is something that is hard to account for whe you're just talking about whether something is good or bad.

For example, there are a dozen great third level spells - fireball, dispel magic, counterspell, fly, leomund's tiny hut, hypnotic pattern, gaseous form, major image, haste, tiny servant, etc... - which do you learn first? I always want major image - but it isn't a priority until 11th level when I can make it permanent. Personally, with all three of my wizards in 5E my first two 3rd level spells always included Leomund's Tiny Hut. For the other spell one wizard went fireball, another hypnotic pattern and the laste haste. However, by 8th level, all three PCs had nearly identical 3rd level spells in their books. My enchanter took fireball because he had too many concentration spells. My diviner took hypnotic pattern because he didn't have as many concentration spells and the group had other high damage PCs. The last took haste because we faced a lot of solos, he was squishy and he best thing for the group was to haste the paladin and hide.

Yeah, it’s tough to pre-plan even within a specific build. For example, with a diviner and most times without I pretty much always take Slow, finding it far more effective and easier to use then Haste and most other third level spells. But since I take it often I have it down cold. It’s just one of those things.

I just wish there was more for a summoning type, Conjuration is a good school but lack of summoning spells hurts.

 

[SpoCk0nd0pe]

I think it changes little in actual gameplay regardless of how the official rules discuss the identification of the spell. I figure it comes down to two actual scenarios that occur:

1) DM: The enemy wizard casts a fireball! Roll your dex saves.
Handsome and witty wizard: I cast counterspell
DM: You brilliant bastard. The fireball fizzles before it manifests.

2) DM: The enemy wizard casts something. You're not sure what it was
Handsome and witty wizard: I use my reaction to identify the spell
DM: You brilliant bastard. He cast a major illusion, on a side note, a dragon just showed up that would have been more intimidating if you didn't know that.

I too think those rules are rather clunky and remind me of Magic the Gathering tourney rules, where you have to ask ok? whenever your opponent gets priority.

1) But I think the DM's failure to ask shouldn't really influence the rating much. That would be like rating illusions low because some players don't know what to do with them.

2) There are fairly few spells coming to mind where knowing really helps (illusions mostly).

With those rules in place, and the DM actually enforcing them, I cannot really imagine upcasting Counterspell much anymore. This seems to make the Improved Abjuration feature much better. I would probably try find a better house rule for this though.


After gathering more experience playing, I gathered some critique for your ratings:

Abjuration school: I think this is the overall strongest wizard school. The reason being that your low tankiness is a god wizards biggest weakness. If your group is dungeon crawling a lot and your wizard can hide in the back row, you don't need much tankiness. But in my group, where most encounters are in open spaces, my wizard gets targeted quite often. Smart opponents should also follow the target the mage tactic. Arcane Ward becomes very helpful in those situations. The Abjurers features are not as flashy as e.g. Portent, but I think the concentration save avoiding extra HP are very strong mechanically.

Feats: Alert should be sky blue. It really is that good for wizards. So many very potent wizard spells work best when winning initiative. See Hypnotic Pattern.

Counterspell: You might want to point out the spell's range is only 30 ft.Too many people seem to forget.

Hypnotic Pattern: I know I argued for the spell to get demoted to green because of the issue of friendly fire. But after winning unwinnable fights with it, I changed my mind. This one really requires the wizard to win initiative. But if you do, boy does it annoy my DM. The fact that this spell does not allow additional saves at level 3 makes it sky blue imho. Hypnotic pattern is somewhat circumstantial, but in those circumstances it divides encounters in two like wall of force. Slow is an excellent complementary memorization for those circumstances where Hypnotic Pattern doesn't work.

Evard's Black Tentacles: I'm still not sure those 3d6 damage and easier get-out are worth the 2 extra levels over Web. It seems mostly like a higher risk/reward proposition to me. Not something worth 2 extra levels in my opinion. I'd rather go up one more level, cast transmute rock to mud, ditching the concentration and adding double difficult terrain so even creatures making their save have a hard time getting through.

Transmute Rock: I would rate this spell purple. It is close enough to Evard's in many situations but it has a huge area and most importantly no concentration! This is the only melee group screwing spell without concentration. Even with the shortcomings of the spell's control utility (Wall of Force is simply way better control), the no concentration aspect of the spell makes it very valuable for a high level god wizard. It is a bad pick at level 9, but a great one later.

Otto's Irresistible Dance: I know, this one had a ton of discussion already. The purpose of this spell is simply to trade your action against the action of the BBEG. Some BBEG are very difficult to attack with spells because of their legendary saves. Depending on your group and the encounter, trading your action against an action of the BBEG can be very strong.
A very situational spell, but especially good in situations where most other spells tend to be underwhelming. There are not many great spells to open difficult group vs strong loner battles for god wizards.

Reverse Gravity: This one is pretty much the same as in 3.5, except for the concentration mechanic. I do not really get why it is rated lower.

I'm glad you're back and well! I'm looking forward to interesting input on 5e spells.

 

[smbakeresq]

I too think those rules are rather clunky and remind me of Magic the Gathering tourney rules, where you have to ask ok? whenever your opponent gets priority.

1) But I think the DM's failure to ask shouldn't really influence the rating much. That would be like rating illusions low because some players don't know what to do with them.

2) There are fairly few spells coming to mind where knowing really helps (illusions mostly).

With those rules in place, and the DM actually enforcing them, I cannot really imagine upcasting Counterspell much anymore. This seems to make the Improved Abjuration feature much better. I would probably try find a better house rule for this though.


After gathering more experience playing, I gathered some critique for your ratings:

Abjuration school: I think this is the overall strongest wizard school. The reason being that your low tankiness is a god wizards biggest weakness. If your group is dungeon crawling a lot and your wizard can hide in the back row, you don't need much tankiness. But in my group, where most encounters are in open spaces, my wizard gets targeted quite often. Smart opponents should also follow the target the mage tactic. Arcane Ward becomes very helpful in those situations. The Abjurers features are not as flashy as e.g. Portent, but I think the concentration save avoiding extra HP are very strong mechanically.

Feats: Alert should be sky blue. It really is that good for wizards. So many very potent wizard spells work best when winning initiative. See Hypnotic Pattern.

Counterspell: You might want to point out the spell's range is only 30 ft.Too many people seem to forget.

Hypnotic Pattern: I know I argued for the spell to get demoted to green because of the issue of friendly fire. But after winning unwinnable fights with it, I changed my mind. This one really requires the wizard to win initiative. But if you do, boy does it annoy my DM. The fact that this spell does not allow additional saves at level 3 makes it sky blue imho. Hypnotic pattern is somewhat circumstantial, but in those circumstances it divides encounters in two like wall of force. Slow is an excellent complementary memorization for those circumstances where Hypnotic Pattern doesn't work.

Evard's Black Tentacles: I'm still not sure those 3d6 damage and easier get-out are worth the 2 extra levels over Web. It seems mostly like a higher risk/reward proposition to me. Not something worth 2 extra levels in my opinion. I'd rather go up one more level, cast transmute rock to mud, ditching the concentration and adding double difficult terrain so even creatures making their save have a hard time getting through.

Transmute Rock: I would rate this spell purple. It is close enough to Evard's in many situations but it has a huge area and most importantly no concentration! This is the only melee group screwing spell without concentration. Even with the shortcomings of the spell's control utility (Wall of Force is simply way better control), the no concentration aspect of the spell makes it very valuable for a high level god wizard. It is a bad pick at level 9, but a great one later.

Otto's Irresistible Dance: I know, this one had a ton of discussion already. The purpose of this spell is simply to trade your action against the action of the BBEG. Some BBEG are very difficult to attack with spells because of their legendary saves. Depending on your group and the encounter, trading your action against an action of the BBEG can be very strong.
A very situational spell, but especially good in situations where most other spells tend to be underwhelming. There are not many great spells to open difficult group vs strong loner battles for god wizards.

Reverse Gravity: This one is pretty much the same as in 3.5, except for the concentration mechanic. I do not really get why it is rated lower.

I'm glad you're back and well! I'm looking forward to interesting input on 5e spells.

Hypnotic Pattern is also a great “non-combat” spell since you can rob people and areas blind and then restrain them for questioning later. I have (and have had it used against me) the wizard hypnotize them and then the rogue backstab someone, move freely (mobile feat) and then fast hands the hypnotized of their weapons and arcane focuses. That’s an incredible use of a turn. I have ruled though that you can use Mage Hand to slap someone awake just to be fair.

Slow is always underrated IMO as it is friendly and affects a bunch of creatures in ways that have more effect then when you first read the spell. It actually requires a good knowledge of the Monster Manual to realize how good it is, and it is an excellent complimentary spell as you state.

Once you start using spells like this you quickly drop things like Fireball as they are simply more effective against the creatures you really need them to be effective against.

 

[schnee]

Counterspell: You might want to point out the spell's range is only 30 ft. Too many people seem to forget.

It's 60 feet. Not huge, but much MUCH better than 30 feet.

 

[Treantmonklvl20]

It's 60 feet. Not huge, but much MUCH better than 30 feet.

Twice as good even