Treantmonklvl20
Explorer
I'm missing something. I see 2d8+6 (3d8+6 if opponent chooses to trigger the extra damage) Are you adding Int bonus to damage? How is this achieved?
D&D 5E Treantmonk's Guide to Wizards 5e
- Thread starter Treantmonklvl20
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SpoCk0nd0pe
First Post
I'm sorry, my brain blooped. I was calculating Greenflame Blade damage but somehow wrote Booming Blade :/
At level 5, Booming Blade should add 2d8 on trigger though.
At level 5, Booming Blade should add 2d8 on trigger though.
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Treantmonklvl20
Explorer
Ah, that explains it.
I would point out that although Greenflame blade does do additional damage to a target within 5' of your initial target, and although Booming Blade does additional damage to a target who chooses to move that round, in each case these additional damages are circumstantial, and I think it's debatable if they should be added when comparing damage to a non-circumstantial second attack.
Secondly, I would point out that there is a tactical advantage of damage through a 2nd attack vs. damage to a secondary target through greenflame blade as you will have a much better choice of target (including the original target) for the additional damage of the second attack - greenflame blade lacks that versatility. You can't really value that tactical advantage in a straight damage comparison, but it has value nonetheless.
SpoCk0nd0pe
First Post
As I pointed out, they certainly are circumstantial. This goes even further for the AT: The second attack for the Arcane Trickster means another chance to place those sneak attack dice. This may lead to the second attack statistically dealing more damage, especially vs high AC foes (this effect is greatly reduced by advantage or hast btw).
My main point was, that those cantrips generally scale as well as the extra attack, if they stick. Even though circumstantial, this is in my opinion quite remarkable in the math of gish builds. The extra attack feature becomes way less important for damage output.
Side Note:
Booming Blade+Sneak Attack+War Caster+Sentinel is absolutely brutal btw.
My main point was, that those cantrips generally scale as well as the extra attack, if they stick. Even though circumstantial, this is in my opinion quite remarkable in the math of gish builds. The extra attack feature becomes way less important for damage output.
Side Note:
Booming Blade+Sneak Attack+War Caster+Sentinel is absolutely brutal btw.
FormerlyHemlock
Hero
War Caster and Sentinel don't stack well, since Sentinel relies on an opportunity attack while War Caster replaces an opportunity attack. Sneak attack is also quite difficult to trigger on an opportunity attack, unless you are a Swashbuckler instead of an Arcane Trickster. BTW Swashbucklers have an easier time triggering Booming Blade bonus damage.
(Side note: "booming energy" is the stupidest thing ever. I prefer to call the cantrip False Fetters.)
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SpoCk0nd0pe
First Post
Oh, sorry, you are right. It doesn't quite work the way I thought it would.
It still very punishing for moving opponents because the opportunity attack would deal boatloads of damage. The reaction attacks still deal extra sneak attack damage. Triggering the sneak attack damage shouldn't be too hard because if the monster is within 5 ft of you, chances are you are standing next to your ally.
Discussing Sentinel+Warcaster for AT builds really goes too far off topic though.
It still very punishing for moving opponents because the opportunity attack would deal boatloads of damage. The reaction attacks still deal extra sneak attack damage. Triggering the sneak attack damage shouldn't be too hard because if the monster is within 5 ft of you, chances are you are standing next to your ally.
Discussing Sentinel+Warcaster for AT builds really goes too far off topic though.
William Danielsson
First Post
Is there any chance one could get a working link to the podcast treant is referring to in the second part of the guide? I am playing a illusion wiz in the curse of strad campaign, and as a relative new player i dont find any use for most of my spell. Therefore i would like to hear his tips on the podcast. Anyway, great guide! 
CapnZapp
Legend
While on this subject, there's an analysis linked to regarding a particular spell that leads to a dead WotC forum thread.
I haven't been able to find what the analysis is about.
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I haven't been able to find what the analysis is about.
Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app
SpoCk0nd0pe
First Post
After getting back to my actual wizard, I would like to start more discussions about spells
I know you absolutely love Evard's since 3.5 (where it was really overpowered). But I would like to ask: Is the 3d6 damage really worth the two spell slots? It seems like web is very similar. Web allows only a strength check, not str or dex to get free and lightly obscures. It does need anchor points though. In my opinion Web is the overall better control spell and may deserve a sky blue rating. I'm not so sure spending a 4th level slot to add 3d6 damage to restrained creatures who might have an easier time getting out is worth it.
About Otiluke's Resilient Sphere:
This spell seems really good in a vacuum because it is so versatile. But as an actual Wizard, you may want to cast polymorph instead if you need to save an ally. It seems like a much better proposition in general. You may also want to use other spells if your aim is to remove an opponent from combat. Using the sphere for that purpose seems like a bad idea, the same way you really dislike single target save or suck. If you really must have a save or suck spell, maybe something targeting an unusual save (Banishment/Phantasmal Force) or lower level (Tasha's) would be a better use of your spell slots.
On paper, the spell looks really tempting but when I think about what I would use it for, I find I already memorised other spells doing the same job but better.
I know there has already been some discussion about Phantasmal Force but if you rate Banishment green for targeting an unusual save and Otiluke's for it's versatility as save or suck, Phantasmal Force deserves a green rating too imho
I know you absolutely love Evard's since 3.5 (where it was really overpowered). But I would like to ask: Is the 3d6 damage really worth the two spell slots? It seems like web is very similar. Web allows only a strength check, not str or dex to get free and lightly obscures. It does need anchor points though. In my opinion Web is the overall better control spell and may deserve a sky blue rating. I'm not so sure spending a 4th level slot to add 3d6 damage to restrained creatures who might have an easier time getting out is worth it.
About Otiluke's Resilient Sphere:
This spell seems really good in a vacuum because it is so versatile. But as an actual Wizard, you may want to cast polymorph instead if you need to save an ally. It seems like a much better proposition in general. You may also want to use other spells if your aim is to remove an opponent from combat. Using the sphere for that purpose seems like a bad idea, the same way you really dislike single target save or suck. If you really must have a save or suck spell, maybe something targeting an unusual save (Banishment/Phantasmal Force) or lower level (Tasha's) would be a better use of your spell slots.
On paper, the spell looks really tempting but when I think about what I would use it for, I find I already memorised other spells doing the same job but better.
I know there has already been some discussion about Phantasmal Force but if you rate Banishment green for targeting an unusual save and Otiluke's for it's versatility as save or suck, Phantasmal Force deserves a green rating too imho
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FormerlyHemlock
Hero
After getting back to my actual wizard, I would like to start more discussions about spells
I know you love Evard's since 3.5 (where it was really overpowered). But I would like to ask: Is the 3d6 damage really worth the two spell slots? It seems like web is very similar. Web allows only strength, not str or dex to get free and lightly obscures. It does need anchor points though. I think Web is the overall better control spell and may deserve a sky blue rating. I'm not so sure spending a 4th level slot to add 3d6 damage to restrained creatures who might have an easier time getting out is worth it.
Note that 3d6 might be 6d6 on the first failure, if the creature that enters the area has already used its action on something else (e.g. Dash). That's almost as good as Fireball damage, but with the potential for more on further rounds, plus a crowd control effect.
Don't get me wrong, I love Web too, and it is a lot cheaper: in terms of efficiency Web wins hands-down. But when you're in a tough fight, like a bunch of 8th-14th level PCs fighting a whole neogi deathspider full of slaves with artillery, two dozen umber hulks, and a couple of dozen neogi including neogi wizards--in a situation like that, survival matters more than cost-efficiency, and Evard's Black Tentacles becomes awesome.
Or at least, that's how it seemed to me as the guy running the Umber Hulks at the time. That spell got in the way of everything I was trying to do exploit my superior numbers and crush them. The Umber Hulks at the front, instead of doing damage, were just taking damage every round and struggling futilely to get out, while everyone else behind them just sort of milled around in frustration. (One caveat: we realized after the session that my player had misread the area on the spell, and I mistakenly took his word for it. It would have had less of an impact on the combat if we'd played it as a 20' square instead of a 40' square because it couldn't have blocked the whole chokepoint. We retconned it as a wild magic surge while temporarily altered the properties of AoE spells in that sector of wildspace. Not sure if AoE sizes tend to make a difference at your table or not, but the small area is IMO the second-biggest downside to the spell, with the biggest downside being that it doesn't work against airborne enemies.)
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