D&D 5E Treantmonk's Guide to Wizards 5e

[Aldarc]

The builds I was tinkering with where Eldritch Knight/Bladesinger (aiming at 10/10) and Arcane Trickster/Bladesinger (aiming at 12/8).

An Arcane Trickster/Bladesinger is the sort of gish that is not built around "blasting" spells of any sort. Almost never. Your damage output should not come from blasting spells but from your Sneak Attack (often coupled with the SCAG melee cantrips). Their spell selection favors versatility, utility, and combat survivability/mobility that give them "tricks" to their trade: e.g. Find Familiar, Disguise Self, Shield, Silent Image, Mirror Image, Misty Step, Improved Invisibility, etc. You want spells that complement the cleverness of your character. Blasting like a brute does not. Blasting is best left to the full-casters.

 

[CapnZapp]

An interesting exercise would be to rebalance every spell in the book...either tweaking its power or changing its level...so that folks like Treantmonk would have a hard time giving them different colors.

I think I'd play with such a home brew.

Just getting rid of (that is, upgrading) the brown and red would help, a lot.

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[SpoCk0nd0pe]

EK10/BS10 is a very unfortunate split. EK11 grants an extra attack, so if you're going for 10, why stop there?

Because the extra attack feature doesn't scale as well as War magic

 

[Ovarwa]

Because the extra attack feature doesn't scale as well as War magic

So stop at EK7 and enjoy real 7th level spells.

 

[SpoCk0nd0pe]

So stop at EK7 and enjoy real 7th level spells.

Yes, but that misses the ability score improvement at EK 8. Sure, you get it at BS 12 but that's quite a few levels later in the actual build progression and the EK/BS prurpose is to use the ASI. So that net's trading a spell level vs Eldritch Strike. I prefer Eldritch Strike but that is probably up to preference.

 

[Treantmonklvl20]

I do see your point. What are good alternatives then? What do you think are the least bad scaling wizard spells in slots 5-8?
Animate Dead seems to scale well. Hold person is situational. Banishment should be decent too. Are there any more?

The best scaling spells could be its own guide!

Great question though. Keep in mind this could use more research, but with a quick look, some options I notice are:

Blindness/Deafness is a great spell for scaling (one extra target per level, 2nd level spell), and IMO is a much better option than hold person as it doesn't use your concentration and is not limited to humanoids.

Someone mentioned Animate Dead - also note that if you are a Necromancer, this becomes even more pronounced. Also doesn't require concentration.

Eventually you will get 5th level spells, and then Animate Objects is going to be your go-to spell for higher level slots - and it does scale decently. A much more effective way to do damage.

There are likely many more examples (Using Bestow curse (3rd level) with a 5th level slot comes to mind)

You should take into account that "gish" builds are not my specialty, so take my advice with the appropriate grain of salt.

I'm actually a fan of the Arcane Trickster/Wizard split. Use cantrips and lower level spells (like scorching ray) for blasts (+ sneak attack damage) and higher level slots for debilitating spells.

 

[SpoCk0nd0pe]

I tinkered with a lot of "gish" builds over the past few days and I too like the Trickster/Bladesinger very much. The damage is decent, spells known are comparable to a full wizard and the defensive capabilities are great. When you start to fall off significantly in spell power, you start to catch up with the greatsword battlemaster at melee damage. You get the rogue features on top. The only thing this can't do well is burst damage (compared to action surge or smite).

Cha based gishes seem to be a lot less versatile with their spells and have a worse defense but do get huge burst damage in return (quickened SCAG cantrips).

My favourite split is Bladesinger 8/Arcane Trickster 12. Inserting 4 levels of Trickster after 4 or 5 levels of Bladesinger, then finishing Bladesinger 8 before going Trickster for the rest of the levels.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Web also has a larger area if you turn the cube on its side. About 20' x 28'.

If you are doing that, why not go whole hog and get a 35' diameter hexagon?

 

[Aldarc]

Because the extra attack feature doesn't scale as well as War magic

But 'extra attack' is also why it is not recommended that you multiclass between EK and BS because 'extra attack' is a HUGE non-stackable redundant feature that both classes share. You don't get anything from Bladesinger level 6. So going that fat into Bladesinger is actually a bad choice as a MC EK. You would probably be better off going Abjurer or only doing a two-level dip into Bladesinger.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

If you are doing that, why not go whole hog and get a 35' diameter hexagon?

Because I'm not that good at mental geometry. Hey, if it works, it works!

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