D&D 5E True Polymorph shenanigans and "game statistics"

[I'm A Banana]

Here's one.

If you lose skills, but keep personality (which isn't really a game stat), do you keep memories (which is what knowledge is).

If no, does that mean you forget everything you did when in polymorphed form?

My own take: when you're turned into a frog, you have the brain of a frog. The brain of a frog doesn't have places for storing things like knowledge of historical events. It's all replaced by a newfound love for flies. When you turn back into your old self, you probably dimly remember some of the things you did. You remember how delicious you thought flies were, maybe.

 

[pming]

Hiya!

We're recently reached high enough level for our party Wizard to cast True Polymorph and being the sort of player he is, he's itching to give it a go. "Itching" as in bugging my Monk in-game to let him polymorph me and out of curiosity, a little boredom and the certainly ensuing hilarity I think I'm going to let him do it. However, we're curious as to what constitutes "game statistics". Is it just your base stats? Stats and racial features? Is is your entire sheet? Somewhere in between? I haven't seen a clear consensus on it and while that certainly might be a place where the DM gets to make a ruling, but until next week I'm curious if you folks have seen any uniformity or any official rulings? Is a level 15 Wizard still a level 15 Wizard in addition to being a Green Dragon?

Easy. Game Statistics = "something a game mechanic can be applied to or otherwise used". Meaning...Ability Scores, Feats, Skills, Hit Points, Saves, etc. Non-Game Statistics = "all the fluff". Meaning...well, all the fluff.

Getting turned into a Green Dragon means you flip open the MM and look at the appropriate CR Green Dragon for everything...except your alignment and personality (re: the "fluff"). Can you use Open Hand Damage as per your Monk Abilities? Nope...those are definitely "game mechanic" stuff (re: the "game statistics"). Do you have Ki abilities? Nope...those are also definitely "game mechanic" stuff. Can you speak and tell the evil bandits to "leave this wood and never return, for it is under my domain now!"...yes. That's all your personality and alignment...nothing to do with statistics or game mechanics.

Yes, it really is that simple, IMHO.

PS: From a purely gaming perspective... polymorph is geared to be used to hide-in-plain-view, overcome environment, spy or sneak into areas, and all that kinda thing. It is NOT geared to be a means to "get tougher than you normally are". So, my rule of thumb is if saying "Yea, you can use that ability/spell/whatever as an Umber Hulk" suddenly makes you better at your core class ability/spell/whatever because you are now an Umber Hulk...then the answer should be "No, you can't use that ability/spell/whatever". This way the DM can always make for niche exceptions to the 'rule'. But blanket "Yup, you can" is going to cause you nothing but never-ending migraines and bitchy-ass power gamer tirades anytime you do say "No".

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[discosoc]

We're recently reached high enough level for our party Wizard to cast True Polymorph and being the sort of player he is, he's itching to give it a go. "Itching" as in bugging my Monk in-game to let him polymorph me and out of curiosity, a little boredom and the certainly ensuing hilarity I think I'm going to let him do it. However, we're curious as to what constitutes "game statistics". Is it just your base stats? Stats and racial features? Is is your entire sheet? Somewhere in between? I haven't seen a clear consensus on it and while that certainly might be a place where the DM gets to make a ruling, but until next week I'm curious if you folks have seen any uniformity or any official rulings? Is a level 15 Wizard still a level 15 Wizard in addition to being a Green Dragon?

Everything is replaced with the stats of the creature you were polymorphed into. No feats, no spells, no special abilities, languages, or really anything. If your intelligence drops low enough, you may not really even be able to understand what people are saying to you enough to follow directions beyond what that type of animal might be able to handle (go fetch!). All gear is merged with you, but you don't get any benefits for them. You lose access to basically everything about your character, mechanically. So no monk unarmored AC bonus, for example (assuming your new form had the high dex and wis to make it kick in anyway).

True polymorph (or regular even) doesn't just change your shape and call it a day. They really turn you into something else for the duration. The only exception is you retain your "personality" and alignment, although your ability to express those things is more limited.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Everything is replaced with the stats of the creature you were polymorphed into. No feats, no spells, no special abilities, languages, or really anything. If your intelligence drops low enough, you may not really even be able to understand what people are saying to you enough to follow directions beyond what that type of animal might be able to handle (go fetch!).

Well, technically if the creature you turn into doesn't have a language, or only has languages your party don't know, then you can no longer communicate with them. At all.

 

[discosoc]

Well, technically if the creature you turn into doesn't have a language, or only has languages your party don't know, then you can no longer communicate with them. At all.

Correct, but that generally goes hand-in-hand with intelligence. Of course, most GM's will just go the stupid route and let the players communicate just fine, thus ruining a lot of fun moments.

 

[Sunseeker]

Correct, but that generally goes hand-in-hand with intelligence. Of course, most GM's will just go the stupid route and let the players communicate just fine, thus ruining a lot of fun moments.

Didn't 5E remove the "extra language per point of intelligence modifier"? feature?

 

[discosoc]

Didn't 5E remove the "extra language per point of intelligence modifier"? feature?

What I mean by that is most creatures you polymorph into will have some kind of language capabilities, unless they are an animal or something similar -- and low int. Now it's possible to turn into something with a language other people don't know, but with comprehend languages being a ritual, it's really not that hard to get around if you really want to.

 

[Sunseeker]

What I mean by that is most creatures you polymorph into will have some kind of language capabilities, unless they are an animal or something similar -- and low int. Now it's possible to turn into something with a language other people don't know, but with comprehend languages being a ritual, it's really not that hard to get around if you really want to.

This references back a few posts, but this does answer the "spellcasting mouse" problem. You may retain your personality, but if you're not intelligent enough to well, be intelligent, I suspect spellcasting might be difficult.

 

[discosoc]

This references back a few posts, but this does answer the "spellcasting mouse" problem. You may retain your personality, but if you're not intelligent enough to well, be intelligent, I suspect spellcasting might be difficult.

Actually, I don't think you can cast spells while polymorphed regardless of intelligence.

 

[Sunseeker]

Actually, I don't think you can cast spells while polymorphed regardless of intelligence.

You can't if your form can't, and obviously it replaces your whole character so there's that issue too. But presuming you could (such as a Mind Flayer, Vampire, Hag or Dragon or other spellcasting capable creature). Polymorph doesn't make you incapable of casting spells unless the specific form can't, like a bear.