Trying to make Toughness not such a junk feat

[Grog]

What do you think of this change to Toughness - grants +3 hit points, +1 additional hit point for every two character levels. Additionally, the feat can no longer be taken multiple times.

I think this would help make the feat useful beyond 1st or 2nd level. +3 hp is nothing to a 15th level character, but +10 hp would be a significant benefit.

I thought about making it +1 additional hit point for every character level, but decided that might be a bit too much.

Comments?

 

[gunter uxbridge]

I just ruled it so that it increases the threshold for death. Take it once and instead of dieing at -10 to croak at -13. Multiple purchases of the feat stack.

 

[Technik4]

I agree with +1/char level being too much if you are also giving +3. However, you could try one of the following:

a. Gives 3 + Base Fortitude Save (max is 15 or higher, depending on multiclassing)

b. Gives 3 + 1/level (after level 3), max your Con score (max is level or Con score, whichever is lower)

c. Gives 3 + your Con modifier (max is Con modifier + 3)

d. Gives 3 and an additional 3 every time you gain another attack via BAB. (max is 12)

I'm sure there will be more suggestions soon. If you have some time on your hands, this is not the first thread on the subject recently, take a look through a few days worth of house rules.

Technik

 

[Hashmalum]

I think this would help make the feat useful beyond 1st or 2nd level. +3 hp is nothing to a 15th level character, but +10 hp would be a significant benefit.

Toughness isn't supposed to be useful at 15th level. Feats that add a fixed number to a variable statistic offer diminishing returns with level; there are many, many other feats that are equally useless at 15th level. Will you "fix" those too? This is why there are more powerful versions of these feats with stricter requirements, such as (in the case of Toughness) Dwarf's Toughness, Dragon's Toughness, Giant's Toughness, and Epic Toughness. It is intended that players face the dilemma of whether to get a feat that is useful now but whose usefulness fades later, or get a feat that offers substantial benefits down the road but is of limited usefulness when you take it. But a feat that is useful both now and later is probably superior to other feats, and thus unbalanced. In short, what you're trying to fix isn't a bug, it's a feature.

 

[Greybar]

Gunter,
I like that. It has good usefulness at all levels, particularly in combination with Die Hard.
john

 

[haiiro]

There was a good thread just recently on this very topic: http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=60860.

Personally, I changed Toughness a bit: it grants bonus HP equal to your Con modifier, or 4 -- whichever is greater. This comes from Monte's AU feat Sturdy, only minus some of Sturdy's oddities.

 

[bret]

Rather than change the number of hit points granted, make it modify both ends of the scale. A person with Toughness now does not die until -13 HPs.

That would make it slightly more useful at higher levels.

The only other option that I think may be balanced is making it 1 HP / 2 levels, minimum 3 HPs. That would be equivilent to giving half a CON bump.

 

[Terath Ninir]

In short, what you're trying to fix isn't a bug, it's a feature.

Riiigggghhhhttttt. If Toughness was a good feat as-is, then there would not be nearly as many people complaining about it. At least 50% of D&D players think it is a bad feat. In this case, that many people can't be wrong.

On to the topic at hand, however. I think the feat might be a bit powerful. I like the idea of increasing hp at both ends (so they die at -13 instead of -10). Most of the other ideas seem a little powerful, too.

I think a better solution for low hp characters would be to increase the HD of wizards and sorcerers to a d6. They suddenly become much more survivable and don't really need a buffed Toughness feat. Just because wizards have *always* had a d4 doesn't mean it's a good idea. Some Sacred Cows should be slain.

 

[Nifft]

Gives 3 + Base Fortitude Save (max is 15 or higher, depending on multiclassing)

This probably comes from my house rule, which is:

Gives 1 + Base Fort save; may be taken multiple times, and the effects stack.

-- N

 

[uv23]

I personally think 1 extra hp per level is perfect. That way it maintains its usefulness over level advancement yet doesn't build up to appreciable amounts of extra hp until very high level anyway, where an extra 20hp "ain't all that" against the enemies you'll be fighting at 20th level.