D&D General Tucker's Kobolds: worth using in 5e?

[Clint_L]

One of the downsides of doing a Tucker-esque type of scenario is that you end up having to use so many, many low-powered enemies on the field just to counteract the odds of those enemies ever actually hitting. That was one of the main points about the Tucker's Kobolds concept... that players who thought they could never be harmed by lowly kobolds after a certain character level (back in the AD&D/2E era) found that not to be true when so many got thrown at them continuously throughout the entire dungeon that they WERE finding themselves getting hit (and they being unable to hit any of them back because they were all behind arrow slits and the like.)

But all that means is you as the DM just have to roll so many gosh-darned attack rolls all the time, just to see if like you can manage any hits when you need like nothing but 19s or 20s because the kobolds are so low-powered. And then you are stuck with these rare hits doing extremely minor attack damage... slowly plinking away at the PCs hit points. The whole Tucker's thing very much becomes a battle of attrition over round after round after round after round... the PCs unable to escape the dungeon, but 90% of all the kobolds unable to actually hit.

Now if you decide to up the power of the scenario by making it all trap-based, where you are no longer using the kobold stats for attack and damage but instead raising the CR by using more powerful traps that can actually do significant damage to the PCs, then it probably wouldn't be the same sort of slog. But it also would no longer be a true Tucker's Kobolds scenario at that point (if that actually even matters, which it probably shouldn't.)

I’ve gotten around the excess rolling by turning minion attacks and traps into lair actions.

Edit: should probably better explain. Example: in a recent pirate ship battle, the ship's crew was assisting the PCs against the big band and a few of his henchmen, all quite tough. Rather than add 20 NPC pirate attacks to the battle, I just made a pirate ship lair action chart (in this case, the lair actions were on the side of the party) and on initiative 15 and 5 one of the players would roll a dice and some pirates would pop out and do something entertaining and useful in a small way. Here's the chart:

Deck Ambush:​

1. Deck Ambush: A hidden crew member bursts from a storage hatch, curtain, or vent and ambushes a foe.
Mechanics: One enemy within 30 feet of the party takes 2d6 + 3 piercing damage and must succeed on a DC 13 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone.
Flavour Text: A trapdoor bursts open as a gnome crewman leaps out, dagger-first. “Surprise, bastard!”
2. Sabotage the Offense: Crew cut a rigging line, loosen ballast, or swing a loaded crate to disrupt the enemy.
Mechanics: All enemies in a 20-foot line must make a DC 14 Dexterity saving throw or take 2d10 bludgeoning damage and be knocked prone.
Flavour Text: With a snap of rope and a creak of pulleys, a heavy crate swings like a pendulum into Redhand’s Anointed.
3. Patch and Rally: A trusted crewmember provides quick aid or covering fire.
Mechanics: One party member regains 1d8 + 3 HP, ends the frightened or grappled condition, or gains advantage on their next attack roll or saving throw before the end of their next turn.
Flavour Text: From the shadows, a familiar voice hisses, “Drink this, quick!” as a flask or potion is tossed into their hands.
4. Flashpowder Barrage: A crew member tosses a flashpowder charge or fire-cracker mix from a hidden stash, temporarily blinding or disorienting enemies.
Mechanics: All enemies within a 10-foot radius of a point within 60 feet must make a DC 14 Constitution saving throw or be blinded until the start of their next turn. On a success, they have disadvantage on their next attack roll instead.
Flavour Text: A hatch clatters open above, and with a hiss and a boom, the targeted area fills with smoke and blinding light. “Compliments of the Ember Lynx!”
5. Crossfire Trap: Hidden crew members spring a trap with crossbows or thrown weapons from elevated positions—like rafters, the stairs, or behind barrels.
Mechanics: Up to two enemies within 60 feet must each make a DC 14 Dexterity saving throw or take 3d6 piercing damage (half on success).
Flavour Text: From the catwalk above, twin bolts fly like lightning. A voice snarls, “Ain’t your ship, Redhand!”
6. Hook and Haul: A crew member uses a grappling hook, boarding pike, or net to yank an enemy out of position.
Mechanics: One Large or smaller enemy within 30 feet must make a DC 15 Strength saving throw or be pulled 15 feet and restrained (escape DC 14) as they’re yanked into rigging, pinned under debris, or tangled in rope.
Flavour Text: A hooked pike lashes out from the shadows, catching an Anointed by the leg and dragging them screaming into the cargo netting.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I’ve gotten around the excess rolling by turning minion attacks and traps into lair actions.

Absolutely. Minions, lair attacks, swarms... the 5E game has numerous ways to represent masses of small enemies attacking all at once while cutting down the number of attack rolls having to be made and keeping track of all those small piles of damage. But doing so just means a person is adapting the concept of Tucker's Kobolds to a 5E paradigm, but not actually running a Tucker's Kobolds scenario itself. But of course I would never blame someone for NOT wanting to run a true Tucker's Kobolds scenario, as that was a very particular place and time in D&D history where the mechanics of that scenario made sense (for which 5E does not lend itself.)

The idea of a dungeon filled with hundreds of kobolds all of whom are gunning down the PCs makes sense. But actually running 5E in the manner that people had to run the original T's Ks kinda doesn't. Wrong tool for the job in my opinion.

 

[kigmatzomat]

...This is a bog-simple defense and it can drive even a tier3 party insane...

I forgot the penultimate defense of kobolds and goblins. The one that requires the least effort for the most value against medium+ creatures.

A tunnel that even small creatures have to squeeze. 1ftx3ft or 1.5ftx1.5ft. Make it a little twisty, no more than a few feet of line of sight. Just a few angles will do. Assuming you've got two sets of tunnelers working from opposite caverns, digging towards the sound of the other diggers, those will happen naturally.

And finally, the ultimate maneuver used by goblins and kobolds throughout all of fiction:

Obedience & subservience. Surrender, hand over your meager wealth, offer up members of the tribe to be servants, workers, warriors.

And all the while, the heir-to-the-throne and a hand picked group of guards and "elites" have been fleeing out the rear exit, planning to maintain the tribe somewhere else.

 

[Seramus]

An absolute smorgasboard of traps that still deal half damage on a save. It won't bother someone with evasion of course, but it can whittle down almost anyone.

But really, as much as I love Tucker's Kobolds, they really are about time. Do you rush past them and take your lumps, like the original team eventually did when attrition started to mount against them? Or does your party slog through it, play defensively, and try to clear them out while mitigating attrition as much as possible? The biggest problem with the latter option, and ANY situation in D&D where you might want to do a lot of careful planning, 10' foot poling, or extensive scouting... is how extremely limited your time at the table is.

Precious, precious time. You have so little of it. 4+ adults all managing to schedule 4'ish hours out of their week to get together? And you're spending it on carefully, inchingly, meticulously fighting a bunch of trap happy kobolds? It can work great as a one shot, or if your group really loves that kind of thing, but you have to be sooo careful to make sure everyone is having fun.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I'm running a dungeon loosely based on Icespire Hold (map below), but the book version is quite empty. Almost every room is just a description without any encounter or anything to interact with.

Spoiler: Icespire Hold

View attachment 415241

So I was thinking: what if I use Tucker's Kobolds? The famous killer kobolds from that old Dungeon Magazine article that used traps and subterfuge to strike fear into the hearts of adventurers that would kill them with a single attack.

Has anyone tried it in 5e? What interesting traps and tricks would you use? What are the best locations to place traps on that map?

Tucker's Kobolds are IMO always worth using. Also Tucker's Any Other Intelligent Enemy. To do otherwise is to weight conflict too far in the player's favor, and the rules already do that.

 

[bedir than]

I’ve gotten around the excess rolling by turning minion attacks and traps into lair actions.

Edit: should probably better explain. Example: in a recent pirate ship battle, the ship's crew was assisting the PCs against the big band and a few of his henchmen, all quite tough. Rather than add 20 NPC pirate attacks to the battle, I just made a pirate ship lair action chart (in this case, the lair actions were on the side of the party) and on initiative 15 and 5 one of the players would roll a dice and some pirates would pop out and do something entertaining and useful in a small way. Here's the chart:

Deck Ambush:​

1. Deck Ambush: A hidden crew member bursts from a storage hatch, curtain, or vent and ambushes a foe.
Mechanics: One enemy within 30 feet of the party takes 2d6 + 3 piercing damage and must succeed on a DC 13 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone.
Flavour Text: A trapdoor bursts open as a gnome crewman leaps out, dagger-first. “Surprise, bastard!”
2. Sabotage the Offense: Crew cut a rigging line, loosen ballast, or swing a loaded crate to disrupt the enemy.
Mechanics: All enemies in a 20-foot line must make a DC 14 Dexterity saving throw or take 2d10 bludgeoning damage and be knocked prone.
Flavour Text: With a snap of rope and a creak of pulleys, a heavy crate swings like a pendulum into Redhand’s Anointed.
3. Patch and Rally: A trusted crewmember provides quick aid or covering fire.
Mechanics: One party member regains 1d8 + 3 HP, ends the frightened or grappled condition, or gains advantage on their next attack roll or saving throw before the end of their next turn.
Flavour Text: From the shadows, a familiar voice hisses, “Drink this, quick!” as a flask or potion is tossed into their hands.
4. Flashpowder Barrage: A crew member tosses a flashpowder charge or fire-cracker mix from a hidden stash, temporarily blinding or disorienting enemies.
Mechanics: All enemies within a 10-foot radius of a point within 60 feet must make a DC 14 Constitution saving throw or be blinded until the start of their next turn. On a success, they have disadvantage on their next attack roll instead.
Flavour Text: A hatch clatters open above, and with a hiss and a boom, the targeted area fills with smoke and blinding light. “Compliments of the Ember Lynx!”
5. Crossfire Trap: Hidden crew members spring a trap with crossbows or thrown weapons from elevated positions—like rafters, the stairs, or behind barrels.
Mechanics: Up to two enemies within 60 feet must each make a DC 14 Dexterity saving throw or take 3d6 piercing damage (half on success).
Flavour Text: From the catwalk above, twin bolts fly like lightning. A voice snarls, “Ain’t your ship, Redhand!”
6. Hook and Haul: A crew member uses a grappling hook, boarding pike, or net to yank an enemy out of position.
Mechanics: One Large or smaller enemy within 30 feet must make a DC 15 Strength saving throw or be pulled 15 feet and restrained (escape DC 14) as they’re yanked into rigging, pinned under debris, or tangled in rope.
Flavour Text: A hooked pike lashes out from the shadows, catching an Anointed by the leg and dragging them screaming into the cargo netting.

I've simplified support from allied actors down to militia actions as new action type, usable once a round in most circumstances

Militia actions for 5e systems

The Battle of Emund’s Field, the Rally of the Tooks, the Battle of the Black Whale, the Defense of Galladoorn and other moments in the fantasy tales that inspire our roleplaying sessions requ…

fullmoonstorytelling.com

The idea is to holder larger conflicts, but still maintain the focus on what the players are doing. Sometimes that may be commanding allies.

 

[Tonguez]

I used goblins rather than kobolds in order to leverage their nimble escape whenever reduced to half HP.
Abstraction is important though, in particular use Lair Actions for the triggering of traps and other distractions (including the goblin archers) or bringing in waves of minions.

also being minions, use "Swarms" to represent your creatures, but also have the occasional Shaman or Warrior show up.

 

[Celebrim]

The thing about using "Tucker's Kobolds" is that you should take inspiration from Tucker but not do what he did.

Post in thread 'Tucker's Kobolds -- really that tough a challenge?'

Jan 9, 2009

While it is certainly possible to use a low HD humanoid and challenge players, the specific problem I've always had with 'Tucker's Kobold's' type situations is that almost invariably they end up resolving to 'the DM judges the kobolds by different standards than he would judge the players'. Invariably, in 1st edition and 2nd edition desciptions of 'Tucker's Kobold's' type challenges, there are always special rules created to give the kobolds some advantage.

And even when there aren't, the kobolds still have less tangible but certainly important advantages that are the result of being run...

• Celebrim

The goal of "Tucker's Kobolds" should be to be fair to both players and monsters, playing intelligent foes as having plans and resources appropriate to their intelligence and wealth. It should not be to impress the players with how devious you are or to try to win. Never turn a monster or group monsters into a DM PC you are invested in.

 

[kigmatzomat]

The goal of "Tucker's Kobolds" should be to be fair to both players and monsters, playing intelligent foes as having plans and resources appropriate to their intelligence and wealth. It should not be to impress the players with how devious you are or to try to win. Never turn a monster or group monsters into a DM PC you are invested in.

DMs always need a story goal in mind ( "punish players" should never be the goal) and the goal of the opposition. For tribes of small fry, the goal is survivial. The antithesis of kobold and goblin tactics is "fight to the death". Traps and such are not to kill invaders (although that's fine), its to allow the tribe to retreat and to convince the attackers to give up and leave them alone. if that fails, for the tribes are supposed to survive, it needs to acquiesce to the PCs in some way.

They buy off the party ("here, take the mcguffin!"), they flee, or they declare the PCs to be their new masters (great way to fluster good players). Slavery is better than death. You should have to corner them and reject their groveling to get them to go for a pyrrhic victory, and even then the non-combatants are fleeing.

GMs should always plan for small fry to flee or surrender.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I think Tucker's Kobolds are more alive than ever. Due to bounded accuracy, and the way movement works in 5e, Kobolds can come out of small holes attack PCs and back out again.
And readying actions allow only single attacks or cantrips (or the risk of losing a big spell).

I guess, a DM could easily kill a level 5+ party with some 20 Kobolds if they want.
My magic item heavy level 4 party struggled against 12 to 16 orc guards on equal terms. In the end, both opponents retreated.