Two-Handed Weapons and 1.5 x STR Mod...Too Much?

[LokiDR]

2 hander vs 2 weapon: the hasted, flying, improved invisible sorcerer fireballs untill they are all dead. The melee styles are mostly a matter of style and a statistically small margin, IMO. There are bigger balance issues, if balance is concern.

As for feats, I think making a feat for the 2-hander to gain the 1.5 str modifier wouldn't make that big of a change. It certainly looks like TWF takes more feats than it should.

 

[Numion]

2 hander vs 2 weapon: the hasted, flying, improved invisible sorcerer fireballs untill they are all dead. The melee styles are mostly a matter of style and a statistically small margin, IMO. There are bigger balance issues, if balance is concern.

At that point the meleers should've bought themselves items to fly and see invisible. Arcane casters haven't been much of a balance issue in my games, since they tend to die too easily. Clerics are a bigger issue, since they'll match (and surpass, at higher levels) fighters ass-kicking ability, and have full clerical casting on top of that. And they just won't die with all those protective spells.

One of my players uses Miracle to polymorph into stone giant, quickened divine favor & power.. triple emp. bull's strength, it get's pretty ugly. And only now I realized that he could also cast Holy Sword with miracle. That's a lot of damage. Uh-oh.

Sorry for the hi-jack, I got carried away..

As for feats, I think making a feat for the 2-hander to gain the 1.5 str modifier wouldn't make that big of a change. It certainly looks like TWF takes more feats than it should.

At least they should've made Greater TWF (additional off-hand attack at -10) the same feat as the epic Perfect TWF (full iterative attacks). As it is now, Greater TWF is clearly inferior to Improved TWF, though the other is a prerequisite.. And those are just too many fricking feats involved in this..

 

[Dreaddisease]

In reality the extra damage works also. To hit something with only one hand on a sword becomes difficult (unless the weapon is small or tiny). Its really not about putting that much more force behind the blade, but accuracy of the hits. When it comes to head on fighting you don't see people only using one hand on their bastard swords because their hits don't land quite as often and they have a higher chance of losing their sword. They switch to two hands and just go at it.

My 2 pence.

Review: Greater Accuracy = x1.5 in game designer terms.

 

[SpikeyFreak]

(I plan on posting an excel sheet that interactively allows you to analyze the math stats of the fighting styles)

You mean like this one?: Spikey's Damage Calculator

More later....

--Tardy Spikey

 

[Shard O'Glase]

One of my players uses Miracle to polymorph into stone giant, quickened divine favor & power.. triple emp. bull's strength, it get's pretty ugly. And only now I realized that he could also cast Holy Sword with miracle. That's a lot of damage. Uh-oh.

He could also use miracle to cast tensers transformation I beleive. i think miracle can handle 6th level arcane spells. At 18th level that 18d6hp and+9bab. Though he'd have to stop spellcasting afer this.

Oh and if he uses a wooden weapon, like a club he can cast the cleric splat book spell spikes giving up to a +10 in damage. It gets really sick, which is why in my games virtually every fight starts off with vollies of dispels.

 

[Darklone]

I thought about something similar to Caliban .... requiring a feat to use certain martial twohanded weapons (all of them with one feat, a two handed fighting style). Not polearms (everyone may use them who can use martial stuff).

This would have been nice for fighters but would have killed barbarians or other non extra feat beasts.

 

[ashockney]

Smaller weapons

Interesting point that theoremtank brings up is that smaller weapons are not going to be chosen. I think it would be cool to have an offsetting increased accuracy or increased armor class (or both) for using the smaller weapon. In other words, why would a fighter ever take a shortsword that deals 1d6 and crits on 19-20. They've done a great job already of mixing up the weapons and damage already with die types, threat ranges, and reach. Clearly, there are two reasons that stand out right now: for weapon finesse bonuses or for two-weapon fighting. What if you could get a +1 to hit and +1 to AC when using a small or medium sized weapon? Hmmm...particularly more interesting at the lower levels now.

They used to offset these with weapon speeds, but now that's no longer. Maybe the smaller weapons give an initiative bonus? Then you could quickdraw the big boy?

As far as why I think it should stand, unchanged:
1) Not a problem unless Str +4 or greater
2) Very comparable with two weapon (and loses ground in places)
3) Helps to differentiate between "fighters" and non-fighters (rogue/cleric)
4) Gives more choices for combat folks...do I go with one hander and shield or two hander vs. this creature. Always good.

If you were going to make a change, I can appreciate the justification of making it one feat. Since it is comparable to two-weapon fighting, and this can cost you several feats.

On that topic, if you have a problem with high end damage dealers, break down power attack into 3 point or 5 point increments and require more than one feat be taken to reap the full benefits of this damage dealer!

 

[hammymchamham]

Re: Smaller weapons

In other words, why would a fighter ever take a shortsword that deals 1d6 and crits on 19-20

Many reasons

1. Backup weapon
2. They're small creatures
3. A light weapon (for off hand attacks)
4. A light weapon to cut my way out of a creature that swallowed me
5. I want to play someone who is fast and uses a short sword
6. I can finesse a short sword (but not a long sword or great sword).

 

[doktorstick]

Wow. I'm surprised that so many people think that x1.5 damage is a lot. I guess a feat to increase the damage to x2 is outta the question!?

/ds

 

[Crothian]

Wow. I'm surprised that so many people think that x1.5 damage is a lot. I guess a feat to increase the damage to x2 is outta the question!?

/ds

Actually, there is one in print and I've used in my game and I think the fighter in my current group is going to take it very soon as well.