Ulimate Monk Armor....?

[Lord Pendragon]

I say a little too high because the Figher in Full Plate of Uberness gets the same bonus to AC from his expensive item (most of the time), and can still benefit from most other magically granted bonuses.

That's kind of the advantage of full plate. Monks aren't supposed to be able to get a high AC as easily or as cheaply.

 

[DrSpunj]

...actually: which side of the debate my players come down on.

I'm one of your players, but I don't know if you're creating this item for Eaglesford or if you're planning something for the game you normally play in because you're taking another turn behind the DM's screen there.

If the former, then are you using the 1.5 multiplier for "different" or not? If this Monk & his magical Robe exist in our game, then I'm fine with it as long as everything works both ways. The next time we're in Three Oaks I'd like to find some Bracers of Defense priced similarly:

+1 Natural Armor bonus (2,000gp)
+1 Deflection bonus (2,000gp)
+1 Luck bonus (2,500gp)

By my math the highest priced component is the +1 Luck bonus so the others get the x1.5 multiplier for a total price of:

2,500 [Luck] + (2,000*1.5)*2 [+1 Deflection, +1 NA] = 8,500gp

That's a +3 bonus to AC very comparable in price to Bracers of Armor +3 at 9,000gp.

Advantages: Stacks with my PC's armor & buckler shield, continuous effects so I don't suck up daily spell resources, helps out my Touch AC where Bracers of Armor wouldn't

Disadvantages: Makes most AC buff spells the party is capable of using a bit less effective for my PC (Prot. from Evil, Shield of Faith, Barkskin); not a Force effect like Bracers of Armor so still have to suck it up against those blasted shadows (this is largely mitigated by the +1 Luck & +1 Deflection though)

Or do you, Nail, still believe the 1.5 multiplier should not be in there so that same item ends up being just 6,500gp? If so...where do I get one?

Thanks.

DrSpunj

 

[Tatsukun]

Make the distinction. Get used to it.

Wow, grumpy? I hope not (tone is so very difficult to infer from text)

To me, retail price is what's used for determining the xp, time, etc. So, in this case, it's not different than what the game calls 'market price'. But, things like availability, use restrictions, and city wealth alter wholesale price. In effect, I use market price as is (retail) but don't lock wholesale (the price at which a shop would buy an item) to 50% retail.

But my main point is that the formulas in the DMG can not be used alone. It must, must, be checked by finding something else already in the rules with similar effect.

The closest thing I could find to this proposed robe is a robe of Armor +4 with a pile of slotless items (maybe buttons on the robe) to go with it.

Keep in mind that only the first effect is 'slotted'. The rest are slotless because they don't take up an additional slot.

Anyway, time for breakfast.

-Tatsu

 

[Hypersmurf]

Can we keep things civil? You know, I've heard Hypersmurf takes a bat to people who get out of hand around here.

Gah. I kept an eye on this thread for a few pages... it all looked okay, so I ignored it for a while.

That'll teach me

-Hyp.

 

[Majere]

Monks can get the best ac in the game.
There is a cap on armor+shield+Dex to ac of 13+8+3=24 , but not on stat points.
With bracers of ac8 and a ring of force shield you gain 10 shield+armor bonus. As soon as your monkac+dex+wis is greater than 14 (not too hard with say 22 dex and wis) the bonus is sufficiently high to outweigh the no armor restriction and you end up with a HIGHER ac than the fighters.
And your touch ac is somewhere about 25 points higher too

Majere

 

[Nail]

...what ended up happening was.....

Monks can get the best ac in the game.....

Sure...given large amounts of cash.

The problem is that, point for point, AC from armor and shields is significantly cheaper than other types. The cost differential is large enough to put a serious damper on other, non-AC items the monk may want. (And boy-howdy are there quite a few!)

Moreover, the Monk must enhance at least 3 stats (Str, Wis, Dex) to be effective, while the Fighter (and other combat classes) can get away with fewer.

Still, by the time all was said and done, I got the Mnk 16's AC up to 40 and his attacks to +20/+20/+20/+15 (2d8+9+2d6holy). Not bad, all told. (But: his spell-casting buddies couldn't buff him much due to overlaps. Sigh.)

I did end up, BTW, charging x1.5 for the extra magical robe abilities, and I did not use the -30% restriction. My players agreed it was too cheesy.

See? There is justice after all.......

 

[Nail]

....I'd like to find some Bracers of Defense priced similarly:
2,500 [Luck] + (2,000*1.5)*2 [+1 Deflection, +1 NA] = 8,500gp

....That's a +3 bonus to AC very comparable in price to Bracers of Armor +3 at 9,000gp.

....Or do you, Nail, still believe the 1.5 multiplier should not be in there so that same item ends up being just 6,500gp? If so...where do I get one?

...At the local Wall-mart, of course! Everyday low prices!

The problem will be: "Where to get that Luck bonus to AC" from? What spell would be its prerequisite? The Shield of Faith will work for deflection, and Barkskin gives you the natural armor bonus.......

Which is an excellent seque into Tatsukun's point:

things like availability, use restrictions, and city wealth alter wholesale price.

Our only difference, it seems, is what terms we use. The RAW term "market price" really works best as a measure of what it costs to make...not what a shop will sell it for. Is that a fair statement?

The problem: "what a shop sells it for" affects "PC wealth", which is another strongly defined game mechanic.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Sure...given large amounts of cash.

The problem is that, point for point, AC from armor and shields is significantly cheaper than other types. The cost differential is large enough to put a serious damper on other, non-AC items the monk may want. (And boy-howdy are there quite a few!)

This is very true. But this point begins to lead us into another, namely the general balance of the monk. It's my contention that a monk's lower AC (or higher cost of opportunity for a comparable AC) is intentional. Monks aren't meant to get AC as easily as heavily armored fighters. It's one of the perks of the three core classes that are archetypically heavily armored--fighters, paladins, and clerics. Other classes, including the monk--in theory--gain other benefits that balance out these classes' cheaper access to AC.

Moreover, the Monk must enhance at least 3 stats (Str, Wis, Dex) to be effective, while the Fighter (and other combat classes) can get away with fewer.

Well, of the three classes I mentioned above, only the fighter can really get away with fewer stats. Both the cleric and paladin will wind up needing Str, Wis, Cha. Which is not to say that your point isn't a valid one, merely that it's only valid in comparison to the fighter, who gives up certain things (again, in theory ), to compensate.

I did end up, BTW, charging x1.5 for the extra magical robe abilities, and I did not use the -30% restriction. My players agreed it was too cheesy.

See? There is justice after all.......

 

[dcollins]

I repeat: An item usable by a monk that gives +12 AC?
- One item.
- Usable by a monk.

There is no such item. (full stop)

Is it your contention that bracers of armor +12:
- Are not one item?
- Are not usable by a monk?
- Do not give +12 AC?

 

[Nail]

I'm opening up my 3.5e DMG.....

I'm looking through the magic item section for a Bracers of Armor +12.....

I'm not finding such an item already listed and priced.

Ergo: There is no such item that I could use for comparison purposes. So, I guess I'll just have to use this table on page 285.........which just happens to list the AC bonuses I'm talking about......