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UA Unearthed Arcana Gives You Subclasses For Monk, Ranger, and Paladin

The paladin unarmored ability is pretty amusing for a druid paladin multiclass. Overall I like the flavor and ability of all three sub classes.
 

Comments

fuindordm

First Post
I like all three!

Paladin: Repent! (Bonk.)
Orc: No. (Miss)
Paladin: Bad orc! Repent! (Bonk.)
Orc. Rarh! (Miss)
Paladin: (Bonk) Go home, and think about what you've done!
Orc: Okay. (Shuffles away from the battle)
 

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If my players suggest a multi-class Paladin while ignoring the code by which the Paladin must live in order to get their powers I would reject it. For the Oath of Redemption they get their powers from adhering to a code of Peace, Innocence, Patience and Wisdom. Any build that ignores those isn't building an Oath of Redemption Paladin. They are instead building one of the Fallen Paladins.
 

bganon

Explorer
Doesn't make a lot of sense for a pacifist to do things like sneak attacks. Seems contradictory. Just say'n...
Makes sense to me: Violence is the last resort - the best path is to defuse a fight before it happens. But if violence has already started the next best option is to end the fight as quickly as possible with the fewest lethal injuries. And since it's the Redemption Paladin that can drop creatures to zero hp without killing, the least violent path is for the Paladin to deal as much damage as possible, by any means possible.

Peace through diplomacy is best, but if peace through overwhelming force is the only available solution it will have to do.
 

Satyrn

First Post
Makes sense to me: Violence is the last resort - the best path is to defuse a fight before it happens. But if violence has already started the next best option is to end the fight as quickly as possible with the fewest lethal injuries. And since it's the Redemption Paladin that can drop creatures to zero hp without killing, the least violent path is for the Paladin to deal as much damage as possible, by any means possible.

Peace through diplomacy is best, but if peace through overwhelming force is the only available solution it will have to do.
All characters can choose to have the killing blow just be a knockout, though.

But I agree with your thought that once the paladin decides to resort to violence, there ain't nothing odd about being being decidedly violent.
 

Valdier

Explorer
The monk is very underwhelming. Nothing it gains is on par with the Shadow/Open Fist tradition. It honestly feels less capable that Four Elements.

The paladin option I think it really flavorful and could definitely work in some campaign styles.

I also like the ranger. I do think that Slayer’s Counter should additionally allow a free move if you are wielding a melee weapon, in addition to the attack though (must be used to move closer to the target forcing the saving throw).
 



randrak

First Post
Dual Wielding Paladin with the Feat and Mariner Fighting Style and 20 Dexterity. AC = 16+5+1+1 = 23.
Oh look, one of the spells they get is shield...that's another +5, so 28 AC.

Dex is already a dominant stat, this makes strength simply useless for minmaxers. People that say the flavor is a massive restriction forget that...it actually really isn't in combat. Yes, you don't kill...but KOing an enemy or killing them isn't that big of a difference in the grand scheme of things.

Never underestimate a minmaxer...
 

Lanliss

Explorer
So 13 STR, 13 CHA, 3 levels out of your primary class and then max your DEX. What class benefits from that choice?
A Bard would love it. Maybe a Bladelock as well. I actually like the idea of a Hexblade Bladelock, bound to a bloodthirsty weapon that he doesn't want to use, so he takes on an Oath of Redemption, with his ultimate goal being to redeem his Patron. Good story stuff right there. I might actually build this...
 


Dualazi

First Post
An somewhat varied option list here this week, but a lot of duds abound.

Drunken Master: I find it weird how there's no requirement to actually drink. You'd think they'd give them proficiency with brewer's tools or something, but instead they get perform. Is there really a subset of people who want to play a drunken master who doesn't actually drink?

Drunken technique: I like this one a lot, helps the monk stay mobile and out of danger without relying on the mobility feat.

Tipsy Sway: thoroughly mediocre. Even if the creature can target itself with the attack, few enemies have truly devastating melee attacks in isolation so this will be a tiny damage add once per short rest.

Drunkard's Luck: Really good, in my opinion, and combos beautifully with Diamond soul.

Intoxicated Frenzy: neat in theory, but can already tell it's a wash. it requires you to have a huge number of adjacent enemies, which is bad news for a monk, especially at high levels. The damage on it isn't great either.

Drunken master needs some tweaks but seems salvageable.

Paladin of Redemption
: Another dumpster fire of a class option in a game where combat is a core feature. Additionally, this kicks in at level 3, so at levels 1-2 I guess your character was totally down with the killing and whatnot. I hate classes like this because striving for pacifism, while incredibly annoying in the context of D&D, should be an RP decision and not a mechanical one. Is a pacifist rogue going to get his own subclass?

Armor of Peace: Does pacifism prevent you from protecting yourself? The thematic necessity here of being unarmored doesn't make much sense, but at least it still seems to be a difficult dip.

Warrior of Reconciliation: Oh, okay, there it is. The tacit acknowledgement that you can't reliably have a D&D character without violence. You don't sway minds and hearts, you beat the hell out of them until they submit. Also, it lasts for 1 minute and then they can come back at you, so it's not even like you tossed out your ethos for something actually good.

Aura of the guardian: I can see this one being abusable, particularly if you have means of adding resistances into the equation.

Protective Spirit: Oh look, this paladin is part wizard, because he just decided to steal a champion subclass feature...3 levels before the champion gets it.

Emissary of Peace: a terrible capstone to a terrible class. You can't even make the bullying attacks you got at level 3, and since the paladin is not a full caster I'm sure your party will totally enjoy having what is essentially a 9th level cleric with some nice auras as a level 20 team mate.

Overall, it's a crap class option that seems tailor built to cause inter-party drama and doesn't even do its prescribed goal correctly, much like it's equally terrible monk equivalent.

Monster Slayer: Looks like they're trying to roll all the "X hunter" themes into one class option. Kinda bland but there's some good stuff here.

Slayer's Eye: Annoyingly metagamey and questionably necessary, but otherwise fine I guess.

Supernatural Defense: I really like this one, really fits the implacable hunter vibe.

Relentless Slayer: A neat shutdown ability. Situationally useful of course but no real complaints here.

Slayer's Counter: This one is great, letting you choose between locking down an enemy and resisting being locked. It's worth noting that they both take reactions though, so canny enemies can fake you out with one and then launch the other.

Slayer is a bit generic but probably the best of the bunch, since it has some cool new ideas and isn't obviously imbalanced with their inclusion.
 

This Ranger class exacerbates a problem I have noticed with the Ranger class in general: it auto-succeeds its own mini-game. My players attracted to the class want to play a survivor, a wilderness expert, and a resourceful monster-problem solver. Those systems are pretty weak in 5e, specifically wilderness survival, navigation, monster-knowledge creating interesting gameplay advantages, etc. Instead of improving on those systems in an interesting way, the Ranger class and especially this sub-class simply auto-succeed on those challenges. They can't get lost, they automatically find food, they aren't hindered by difficult terrain, etc. In this subclass, they don't even need the nature skill or personal experience to fight monsters, they get to know everything automatically as a bonus action. A lot of Ranger players want to play a Witcher-like monster-hunting mini game, or a Mouse-guard like struggle against their environment. Instead, 5e basically says "you win that game," and then they don't really do anything else except fight.
 


OK, so what's the trope of archetype behind Drunken Master?

I wondered about it when it showed up in Sword & Fist back in 3E; it finally occurred to me to ask about it.
 



Gardens & Goblins

First Post
OK, so what's the trope of archetype behind Drunken Master?

I wondered about it when it showed up in Sword & Fist back in 3E; it finally occurred to me to ask about it.
Jackie Chan's film 'Drunken Master' comes to mind. Though as far as I know, the style doesn't actually rely on the practitioner being drunk or even drinking, simply mimicking the actions of a drunk - swaying, moving in unpredictable ways and so on.

The trope seems to focus on the fantastical idea of a martial artist who becomes more powerful the more intoxicated they've become, which can be fun.
 

Lanliss

Explorer
OK, so what's the trope of archetype behind Drunken Master?

I wondered about it when it showed up in Sword & Fist back in 3E; it finally occurred to me to ask about it.
Guessing you don't watch Jackie Chan? Drunken Fist is an old Kung fu style, relying on unpredictable motion, using momentum to your advantage, and drinking so that you don't feel pain (Probably an American bastardization of the concept, but that is basically what I see this subclass is supposed to be. It is enjoyable to see done, as it excels at poking holes in normal Martial Arts styles, using odd attacks like sitting down and kicking upward, or swinging your bottom around to bludgeon someone with it. If you don't like old kung fu movies, maybe watch the recent Iron Fist on netflix instead, as they have a Drunken Fist user as well.
 

Wrathamon

Explorer
I am... a tad uncomfortable with the "beat people until they like you and do what you say" power of the new paladin subclass. :eek: :eek:
My Church of the Silver Flame paladins disagrees with you ;)

Yes it feels a bit "not good" like I'll beat the evil out of you ...
 

Wrathamon

Explorer
Why make a drunken master that gets no benefits from drinking and doesn't really do anything fun?

They seem to have made a "realistic" drunken master.

Which is boring.
Well Drunken Master was a style that didn't require drinking ... it was fake drunk. But, in movies they made it seem like alcohol gave them superhuman damage resistance ... basically more they drank the tougher they got but more off-balance they became, which was harder to hit & land a clean blow.

Yes it doesnt sound as "fun", I agree with that but I dont know if promoting "heavy drinking" to the point of vomiting to get super-powers is something they want to promote
 

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