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5E Unearthed Arcana: Sorcerer and Warlock

There's a new Unearthed Arcana from WotC today, hot on the heels of the recent one for barbarian and monk. "Two classes, the sorcerer and the warlock, discover new playtest possibilities this week. The sorcerer receives a new Sorcerous Origin feature: the Aberrant Mind. Meanwhile, the warlock gains a new Otherworldly Patron feature: the Lurker in the Deep. We’ve also included a new cantrip: mind sliver."

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Comments

Paul Farquhar

Adventurer
Honestly I don't see this coming in either a starter set or AP. Even a Setting is unlikely as it's not Darksun enough. I think it's going to be in a Psionics book of it's own.
I think there will be a publication similar to Xanathar's Guide, but with a linking theme, rather than a full-on psionics book. Something like "Murray the Mind Flayer's Guide to the Uncanny".

I think WotC may have decided to take psionics in a similar direction to Pathfinder did with it's "psychic" classes. It's weird alien magic, not something lifted from science fiction.

Another point: a while back we had a UA for Giant Soul sorcerer. Now it may be that it wasn't well received, but so far as I can see there hasn't been anything published that it could have gone in. It's not in the slightest Ravnica or Eberron-ish. So it might be sitting on the shelf waiting for a suitable splat book.
 

Parmandur

Legend
I think there will be a publication similar to Xanathar's Guide, but with a linking theme, rather than a full-on psionics book. Something like "Murray the Mind Flayer's Guide to the Uncanny".

I think WotC may have decided to take psionics in a similar direction to Pathfinder did with it's "psychic" classes. It's weird alien magic, not something lifted from science fiction.

Another point: a while back we had a UA for Giant Soul sorcerer. Now it may be that it wasn't well received, but so far as I can see there hasn't been anything published that it could have gone in. It's not in the slightest Ravnica or Ederron-ish. So it might be sitting on the shelf waiting for a suitable splat book.
Could be a generic supplement, though those have not been overly targeted: if it is a XGtE, I'd expect to see way more.

I think they were thinking about Eberron for the Giant Soul: Giants in Xen'drik have a long and strange history with the smaller races. The rule of thumb Crawford has given in the past is that if am option isn't in a book within 12 months, or retooled for another UA, it's DOA. So, pretty sure we will never see the Giant Soul in anything.
 

doctorbadwolf

Adventurer
The rule of thumb Crawford has given in the past is that if am option isn't in a book within 12 months, or retooled for another UA, it's DOA. So, pretty sure we will never see the Giant Soul in anything.
Was the giant soul ever in a UA? It was just something Mearls tinkered around with in the happy fun hour. We are just now seeing the fruits of the Kraken patron he tinkered with.

Further, a rule of thumb is inherently not definitive. Being pretty sure about something extrapolated from a rule of thumb is pretty shaky ground.
 

Ash Mantle

Explorer
With these recent UAs, and especially with the path of wild soul barbarian and the way of the astral self monk, Wizards seem to be subtly integrating increasingly complex mechanics into their subclasses. This is really a good thing. It implies that Wizards acknowledges that 5e is at the point in its lifespan where more complex mechanics can become the norm. I'm eagerly awaiting the next classes to be given the UA treatment, and here's really hoping we're getting another Xanathar's/PHB soon.
 

gyor

Adventurer
They've said there won't be another XGTE style book for awhile, but that doesn't mean they can't have a different style of book with Player options, I mean VGTM and MTOFs and the Setting books had Player options.

I think this will a book more focused on classes the just subclasses, like alternate class features, and new classes, maybe republished the Artificer in a more setting neutral way.

Also I just don't seem them publishing the Psions class and subclasses in a Zendakar book, even if they do a Zendikar book.
 

Paul Farquhar

Adventurer
Was the giant soul ever in a UA? It was just something Mearls tinkered around with in the happy fun hour. We are just now seeing the fruits of the Kraken patron he tinkered with.

Further, a rule of thumb is inherently not definitive. Being pretty sure about something extrapolated from a rule of thumb is pretty shaky ground.
Yes, 18/06/2018, so it was just over a year ago: Giant Soul.

It's closely tied to the ordning, which I'm not sure was ever a thing in Eberron lore. And I don't think any of the Eberron books is planned to include Xen'Drik at this time, so I'm sceptical that it was ever pencilled in for an Eberron book.

I quite liked it - not as much as the Aberrant Mind, but more than the Kraken warlock with his pet tentacle, or the fatabulous expoding barbarian.
 

Parmandur

Legend
Was the giant soul ever in a UA? It was just something Mearls tinkered around with in the happy fun hour. We are just now seeing the fruits of the Kraken patron he tinkered with.

Further, a rule of thumb is inherently not definitive. Being pretty sure about something extrapolated from a rule of thumb is pretty shaky ground.
UA is for testing material for books in the next year, full stop: Crawford has made that clear in his inimitable style. Giant Soul Sorcerer was in UA a full year ago. Ergo, it was something that they were considering for a 2019 book. So, either Ghosts of Saltmarsh, Acquisitions Incorporated, Descent into Avernus, or Rising from the Last War. The latter is the only one that would seem to fit at all.

At any rate, it won't be published at this point.
 

Parmandur

Legend
My understanding is that Zendikar was originally Magic's attempt at a D&D-esque Adventure world. There were traps, creatures that could "level up", quests, etc.
Yes, exactly. I don't know that it's where they are going to go next year, but it fits with what they have tested so far.
 

Parmandur

Legend
They've said there won't be another XGTE style book for awhile, but that doesn't mean they can't have a different style of book with Player options, I mean VGTM and MTOFs and the Setting books had Player options.

I think this will a book more focused on classes the just subclasses, like alternate class features, and new classes, maybe republished the Artificer in a more setting neutral way.

Also I just don't seem them publishing the Psions class and subclasses in a Zendakar book, even if they do a Zendikar book.
They haven't tested a Psion Class, just some high powered weird magic CSubclass options with Far Realms connections. Zendikar is a weird fantasy setting with Far Realms wounds and influences. It might not be what they are working on, but it fits better than, say, Dark Sun.
 

bedir than

Explorer
UA is for testing material for books in the next year, full stop: Crawford has made that clear in his inimitable style. Giant Soul Sorcerer was in UA a full year ago. Ergo, it was something that they were considering for a 2019 book. So, either Ghosts of Saltmarsh, Acquisitions Incorporated, Descent into Avernus, or Rising from the Last War. The latter is the only one that would seem to fit at all.

At any rate, it won't be published at this point.
This is grossly inaccurate based on actual practice. An entire class took well over two years to go from initial UA to publication. Subclasses have taken 18 months to show up in an official content.
 

Undrave

Explorer
If the lack of Tidal Wave and other spells hurts these archetypes, then maybe they should reprint those spells in whatever book these show up in?

I wish the new Warlock also came with new invocations, seems like a missed opportunity.

I'd play that Warlock, not sure about the Sorcerer it's not a class I've ever been interested in so I dunno.
 

5ekyu

Adventurer
This is grossly inaccurate based on actual practice. An entire class took well over two years to go from initial UA to publication. Subclasses have taken 18 months to show up in an official content.
While the comment may have overstatted it a bit, the fist of thst was correct in terms of comments from JEC sbout the tole of UA in the last 12 months.

The point of emphasis was that if UA material has not seen publish in a year, its likely because they found a need to rework it - something(s) wasn't right. The line was along the lines of "it will likely look very different".

Part of that was about feats as well...

But basically, it boiled down to this - they do not pull down old UA content they found yo be unacceptable. It hanging around for over a year is not a good sign it's ok to use as is - the reverse.

For classes and sub-classes he also clarified that some of the balance process testing is not done at all for UA release. One example was the whole multi-class analysis. Thst comes well down the line sfter.

Obvioudly other factors play into release dstes.

So, all in all it did seem to be the case getting made that the longer something sits without activity on UA the lower the odds get of it coming out as is.
 

gyor

Adventurer
They haven't tested a Psion Class, just some high powered weird magic CSubclass options with Far Realms connections. Zendikar is a weird fantasy setting with Far Realms wounds and influences. It might not be what they are working on, but it fits better than, say, Dark Sun.
I will admit that in isolation, just looking at the UA subclasses, you could be right. But Aberrant Mind Sorcerer was suggested I think before this as the Psionic Sorcerer subclass which suggests this could be related to the Psion class.

But we shall likely see in the next few months, as future UA fill in the picture.
 

5ekyu

Adventurer
If the lack of Tidal Wave and other spells hurts these archetypes, then maybe they should reprint those spells in whatever book these show up in?

I wish the new Warlock also came with new invocations, seems like a missed opportunity.

I'd play that Warlock, not sure about the Sorcerer it's not a class I've ever been interested in so I dunno.
I agree. Maybe it gets fixed later, but not including XGtE spells etc seems to be problematic st yime.
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen
My understanding is that Zendikar was originally Magic's attempt at a D&D-esque Adventure world. There were traps, creatures that could "level up", quests, etc.
They sold it that way, and that was definitely a part of the plane’s identity, but that was also partly a bait and switch. Zendikar was designed bottom-up, from the concept of a block with a third-act twist to go along with their experimentation with set size and block structure. From there they developed the concept of an ancient imprisoned evil being released for the third act, and then buried that reveal under the premise of a hostile world where the land itself seems sentient and out to get you. This then lead to the “D&D style dungeon delving world” hook.

Which makes it interesting that they’re planning to return to a post-Eldrazi Zendikar. The Eldrazi were pretty much the setting’s raison d'etre. It will be interesting to see how they develop its identity as an independent setting.
 

doctorbadwolf

Adventurer
UA is for testing material for books in the next year, full stop: Crawford has made that clear in his inimitable style. Giant Soul Sorcerer was in UA a full year ago. Ergo, it was something that they were considering for a 2019 book. So, either Ghosts of Saltmarsh, Acquisitions Incorporated, Descent into Avernus, or Rising from the Last War. The latter is the only one that would seem to fit at all.

At any rate, it won't be published at this point.
I’ll have to look back at the last year of UAs. I don’t recall Giant Soul being in.

Regardless, Crawford let us in on a general design guideline. He also noted that sometimes an option is popular in general, but not specifics, so it goes back to the drawing board.

You put too much stock in every little statement by the design team. Every statement in an interview or twitter thread isn’t inscribed on a stone tablet.
 

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