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Looks like Spelljammer and/or Planescape is back on the menu!

 

[TheSword]

A follow-up curiosity: are there official published settings that you really liked and regularly play in? Or do you play in homebrew settings? If you use official settings, what do you like about them?

I ask because it's entirely possible it's just that Planescape doesn't appeal to you for taste reasons.

Also because I know a lot of homebrew setting dm's who only look at published settings as things to steal ideas from, which is fine, but it affects how the judge their interest in a setting. Planescapes steal-ables are pretty narrow and won't work with a lot of other settings.

I love Planescape, it’s Spelljammer I don’t see the point of.

Also Ravenloft, Darksun, Forgotten Realms (all over), Rokugan and many others. In fact there aren’t many settings I don’t like.

Spelljammer does seem to be particularly goofy though. Not sure if it’s the science/fantasy aesthetic or the puns (Scro?). Then there’s the fact that it feels hollow.

 

[Chaosmancer]

As someone who has DMed a lot of Spelljammer, I would say it is precisely parallel to a nautically-themed game. In fact, I would not be surprised if Ghosts of Saltmarsh is a model for a Spelljammer anthology of adventures (but likely with an additional chapter or two of lore). The ocean is transitive, but there are destinations within and under it. The Spelljammer box set encourages people to make their own crystal spheres that are a destination and to have adventures set there, not to mention that the dwarves' most typical "ship" is actually a flying dungeon. So, executing a mission or adventure on such ship might be like Star Wars where the characters are trying to meet objectives while within the bowels of the Death Star.

But, a Spelljammer campaign can be like a series of Star Trek adventures or nautical adventures or anything one can imagine. Literally, the entire Material Plane is the playing field. And, of course, other multiplanar shenanigans can also occur, especially with ghost ships (or planets) that inhabit the Ethereal Plane or adventures that make use of the Feywild or Shadowfell.

A minor quibble, but I think this gets to the point they were making.

I don't need Spelljammer to have an adventure in a flying, dwarven dungeon. And yes, "no needs anything to do anything because homebrew" but my point is that if you aren't doing something different and interesting with the setting, what's the point of the new setting?

Spelljammer had many things that made it unique back in 2e, but a lot of them would be incredibly hard to do or against the current direction of the game. For example, like was said earlier, I see zero chances that the Phlogiston is going to be as insanely explosive as it was. In fact, I would surprised if it was particularly deadly at all, as 5e has pushed pretty far away from dangerous environments that aren't literally on fire.

Additionally, one of the big problems I see with the combination of Planescape and Spelljammer is sort of a.. what's the point of the ships? It actually can't be to go between the different crystal spheres. Because that is what the portals in Sigil are for. Way safer and easier to travel through some portals between safe ports than taking a ship through monster space.

Now, that isn't to say there isn't a solution, but the solution is to change the intent of Spelljammer. They would have to be about exploring NEW places. Finding lost citadels or dead realms that can no longer be reached via portal. Mining the bodies of Dead Gods. This then becomes a VERY different setting, and is where I think the Star Frontier material can be a useful bridge. It becomes more about a central port (Sigil) where these ships leave in a mix between Star Trek and the Golden Age of Piracy/Exploration.

 

[Maxperson]

Additionally, one of the big problems I see with the combination of Planescape and Spelljammer is sort of a.. what's the point of the ships? It actually can't be to go between the different crystal spheres. Because that is what the portals in Sigil are for. Way safer and easier to travel through some portals between safe ports than taking a ship through monster space.

There can be multiple ways to do something. Redundancy is not a big, bad evil thing. Both Sigil and Spelljammer worked just fine in 2e with providing different ways to do almost the same thing.

 

[Parmandur]

A minor quibble, but I think this gets to the point they were making.

I don't need Spelljammer to have an adventure in a flying, dwarven dungeon. And yes, "no needs anything to do anything because homebrew" but my point is that if you aren't doing something different and interesting with the setting, what's the point of the new setting?

Spelljammer had many things that made it unique back in 2e, but a lot of them would be incredibly hard to do or against the current direction of the game. For example, like was said earlier, I see zero chances that the Phlogiston is going to be as insanely explosive as it was. In fact, I would surprised if it was particularly deadly at all, as 5e has pushed pretty far away from dangerous environments that aren't literally on fire.

Additionally, one of the big problems I see with the combination of Planescape and Spelljammer is sort of a.. what's the point of the ships? It actually can't be to go between the different crystal spheres. Because that is what the portals in Sigil are for. Way safer and easier to travel through some portals between safe ports than taking a ship through monster space.

Now, that isn't to say there isn't a solution, but the solution is to change the intent of Spelljammer. They would have to be about exploring NEW places. Finding lost citadels or dead realms that can no longer be reached via portal. Mining the bodies of Dead Gods. This then becomes a VERY different setting, and is where I think the Star Frontier material can be a useful bridge. It becomes more about a central port (Sigil) where these ships leave in a mix between Star Trek and the Golden Age of Piracy/Exploration.

I recall Mike Mearls once said that if they did Spelljammer, they would focus on the Rock of Braal and Wildspace as their own integral Setting, more than just a way to get from world to world. This still seems reasonable.

 

[Chaosmancer]

There can be multiple ways to do something. Redundancy is not a big, bad evil thing. Both Sigil and Spelljammer worked just fine in 2e with providing different ways to do almost the same thing.

Which is exactly why the United states still sees a large trade in horse-drawn carriages, because market pressures don't push for speed and safety over whatever we did first.

Oh, wait... well, we still see a lot of people arriving by boat from Europe right?

Oh wait...

 

[Chaosmancer]

I recall Mike Mearls once said that if they did Spelljammer, they would focus on the Rock of Braal and Wildspace as their own integral Setting, more than just a way to get from world to world. This still seems reasonable.

Not familiar with either, but it does sound similar to what I was saying.

 

[Maxperson]

Which is exactly why the United states still sees a large trade in horse-drawn carriages, because market pressures don't push for speed and safety over whatever we did first.

Planar travel is much more dangerous than flying in a spelljamming vessel, and doesn't get you to the same places. Sigil does not have a door to very little place in the multiverse, so there are a lot of places a spelljamming ship can go that planar travelers cannot. Therefore, spelljamming isn't redundant or even lesser to planar travel. Planar travel goes places no spelljamming vessel can go, therefore planar travel is not redundant or lesser to spelljamming.

 

[Scribe]

Which is exactly why the United states still sees a large trade in horse-drawn carriages, because market pressures don't push for speed and safety over whatever we did first.

Oh, wait... well, we still see a lot of people arriving by boat from Europe right?

Oh wait...

Do we ship things...

By Plane?
By Boat?
By Truck?
By Van?

Why not 1 method?

 

[Parmandur]

Not familiar with either, but it does sound similar to what I was saying.

Wildspace is the term for the parts of the Spelljammer Settign that were distinctly Space-y, like ASteroid cities or Beholder space stations, that sort of thing, the gonzo Flash Gordon stuff that isn't in other Settings. The Rock of Bral is a city, basically Waterdeep...in...Spaaaace!!!!

Basically Treasure Planet, with D&D.

"Welcome to the city of twilight, the city of thieves, the city among the stars. Founded by pirates, Bral is now a prosperous city of rogues and merchants, adrift in the vast realms of Wildspace. Its docks are crowded with graceful ships, its streets are teeming with intrigue and adventure, and its population includes shining heroes and dark villains. The Rock of Bral is a haven for any adventurer with a quick wit and a dash of greed - oppurtunity only awaits the hand bold enough to seize it!"

"Rock of Bral is an accessory to the SPELLJAMMER campaign setting and is intended to provide a ready guide to this most fascinating of cities. Your character will find the Rock to be the perfect base from which to explore the magical reaches of Wildspace."

SJR5: Rock of Bral (2e) - Wizards of the Coast | SpellJammer | AD&D 2nd Ed. | AD&D 2nd Ed. | Dungeon Masters Guild

SJR5: Rock of Bral (2e) - Welcome to the city of twilight, the city of thieves, the city among the stars. Founded by pirates, Bral is now a prospe

www.dmsguild.com

 

[Demetrios1453]

In regards to the Planescape/Spelljammer discussion, on whether you need both...

Yes, in the end, both can do the same thing when travelling between worlds in the Material Plane. But it's similar to the situation where your adventuring group needs to go to a different continent on the same world. Sure, they can use that portal/teleport circle network to go from one city to a central hub and then across to another continent. But they can also get on a ship and go there directly. The first might be secret, or too expensive, or the nearest city connected to the network might be very far, or be in dangerous territory (all of which are opportunity for adventure on their own), so the ship might be the most viable option. And travel on the ship has plenty of opportunity for fun adventure if everyone wanys it to be. In fact, you could make a whole campaign just on a ship on the seas! But in the end, adventure can be had through either method. Is one better than the other? No, both are equally valid, just different. The same could be said for Planescape and Spelljammer as settings...