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Looks like Spelljammer and/or Planescape is back on the menu!

 

[Parmandur]

In regards to the Planescape/Spelljammer discussion, on whether you need both...

Yes, in the end, both can do the same thing when travelling between worlds in the Material Plane. But it's similar to the situation where your adventuring group needs to go to a different continent on the same world. Sure, they can use that portal/teleport circle network to go from one city to a central hub and then across to another continent. But they can also get on a ship and go there directly. The first might be secret, or too expensive, or the nearest city connected to the network might be very far, or be in dangerous territory (all of which are opportunity for adventure on their own), so the ship might be the most viable option. And travel on the ship has plenty of opportunity for fun adventure if everyone wanys it to be. In fact, you could make a whole campaign just on a ship on the seas! But in the end, adventure can be had through either method. Is one better than the other? No, both are equally valid, just different. The same could be said for Planescape and Spelljammer as settings...

Yeah, I see no need to put Spelljammer and Planescape into conflict, any more than Ghosts of Saltmarsh is in competition with Out of the Abyss. Different Settings, with different adventure opportunities.

Even beyond how to get between different material worlds, you can't Spelljam to Hell or Arcadia. That's what Gates are better at. And you can't fight space pirates in Sigil (unless you feel like it). Different stories.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

That’s cool. I amend my sentiment to say… the setting is superfluous not obsolete then. If that was from the outset because planar travel and portals already existed then so be it.

Don’t get me wrong. Magic airships are cool. Magic airships should be a thing. I just don’t get how the setting is anything more than an interlude I’ve yet to see anything to change my mind on that.

Here are things that you can do in Spelljammer that you can't do in any other setting:

• Commandeer a spaceship and fly it to the Dark Side of the moon, where a secret civilization of Moon Elves lives.
• Have an epic space-battle between a Steampunk ship of Gnomes, Clockworks, and Autognomes and a Deathspider Neogi ship filled with the mind-controlling Eelspiders and their slaves. (Or between Githyanki and Illithids.)
• Set up a trade-route between the different planets and asteroids within a Crystal Sphere and start an "Intergalactic" trading empire.
• Hire a group of gunpowder-loving hippo-headed British-mercenaries to fly on your Spelljamming ship with you to attack a group of Beholders.
• Be a Gnome Beastmaster Ranger with a Giant Space Hamster animal companion (or Autognome and Steel Defender that looks like a Giant Space Hamster as a Battlesmith Artificer).
• Rescue the members of a Spelljamming Ship that was hi-jacked (or had its spellcaster pilot die) while floating in the void of space.
• Have your ship shut down by a living asteroid that's a cousin to the Beholders (but without eyestalks) and have to battle it in order to survive.
• Set up home base on an Asteroid that you conquered and claimed as your own.

I've ran a Spelljammer campaign in D&D 5e. You can absolutely run an adventure in Spelljammer, even if the campaign setting is mainly transitory in nature. It's fine if you don't like it, but it works as a setting. It's just as valid of a setting as Planescape, Eberron, the Forgotten Realms, or any other campaign setting.

 

[thundershot]

What I loved about Spelljammer wasn’t the ship rules or traveling… it was the FEEL. There was a Star Wars feeling mixed with Starjammers for us. We did the Goblins Return/Heart of the Enemy adventures and it just had this great feel to it. Our group ended up trying to stop the brewing war and ended up taking the sides of the goblinoids. The space elves were just arrogant bastards and my group just didn‘t like their attitudes. They also frequented the Rock of Bral and made friends with the beholder bartender. It had a Star Wars cantina vibe and went over so well.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Planar travel is much more dangerous than flying in a spelljamming vessel, and doesn't get you to the same places. Sigil does not have a door to very little place in the multiverse, so there are a lot of places a spelljamming ship can go that planar travelers cannot. Therefore, spelljamming isn't redundant or even lesser to planar travel. Planar travel goes places no spelljamming vessel can go, therefore planar travel is not redundant or lesser to spelljamming.

So... literally what I said before. You won't take a Spelljammer to other settings, or major planes, because there are portals and spells to get to those places that are far far safer and far far far far faster.

You MIGHT take a spelljammer to places that have no portals. Unknown places, lost places, the bodies of dead gods, ect ect. Places that you can't take a portal to.

HOWEVER, the original design intent of Spelljammer WAS to take the ship from places like Oerth to Faerun. Which is what we are saying you likely won't do, because it is dangerous and takes longer, so the intent of Spelljamming would have to change if you combine the two into a coherent package.

Now, please tell me I'm wrong and then put forth my own point against me... again.

 

[Maxperson]

So... literally what I said before. You won't take a Spelljammer to other settings, or major planes, because there are portals and spells to get to those places that are far far safer and far far far far faster.

What's with you and constantly trying to have me say the complete opposite of what I said?

YOU WILL TAKE IT TO OTHER SETTTINGS AND OTEN ARRIVE WHERE PLANAR PORTALS ARE NOT PRESENT.

You MIGHT take a spelljammer to places that have no portals. Unknown places, lost places, the bodies of dead gods, ect ect. Places that you can't take a portal to.

Or the 99.99% of the various universes where no portal from Sigil exists. Sigil is finite in size. It does not have infinite portals to all places in all settings. It doesn't even have portals to more than a very small percentage of places.

HOWEVER, the original design intent of Spelljammer WAS to take the ship from places like Oerth to Faerun. Which is what we are saying you likely won't do, because it is dangerous and takes longer, so the intent of Spelljamming would have to change if you combine the two into a coherent package.

First, it's only you, not we. Second, I said planar travel is far more dangerous, so again you're attributing to me the literal opposite of what I said in the post you quoted. Stop it.

Now, please tell me I'm wrong and then put forth my own point against me... again.

Nope. Just going to point out the umpteenth million Strawman by you. Stop twisting my words and then arguing against your created fiction please.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Do we ship things...

By Plane?
By Boat?
By Truck?
By Van?

Why not 1 method?

We ship certain things certain ways, because they are more efficient certain ways. Almost no one delivers by "van" except for "last mile delivery" which is the most expensive and prohibitive part of the entire shipping process (yes, even more than the boat). But you can't ship cargo containers by plane, however somethings can't wait the month or two at sea.

However, here is the issue. Portals are a superior way to get from "plane" to "plane" over spelljammers. A large enough gate can allow for a wagon or even a wagon train to instantly and safely pass from Oerth to Kyrnn with none of the threats of taking a Spelljammer through monster and pirate infested space.

The portals are permanent in many instances as well, far cheaper to access than it costs to buy a ship and load it with mercenaries and fighters who can protect the ship on a potentially multi-month journey just to the other plane of existence, instead of the... two hour walk? It would otherwise be.

From an economic standpoint NOTHING beats portals at getting from Point A to Point B, and Sigil has laws against violence, so your caravan san safely travel from a gate portal, through the city, to a gate portal far faster, cheaper and safer than loading a Spelljammer.

 

[Parmandur]

HOWEVER, the original design intent of Spelljammer WAS to take the ship from places like Oerth to Faerun.

Actually, no, the original design intent was to imitate He-Man and Buck Rodgers Adventurea. The cross-Setting stuff sort of came in after.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

So... literally what I said before. You won't take a Spelljammer to other settings, or major planes, because there are portals and spells to get to those places that are far far safer and far far far far faster.

You MIGHT take a spelljammer to places that have no portals. Unknown places, lost places, the bodies of dead gods, ect ect. Places that you can't take a portal to.

HOWEVER, the original design intent of Spelljammer WAS to take the ship from places like Oerth to Faerun. Which is what we are saying you likely won't do, because it is dangerous and takes longer, so the intent of Spelljamming would have to change if you combine the two into a coherent package.

Now, please tell me I'm wrong and then put forth my own point against me... again.

I mean, the simplest answer is probably trade. Like, it'd be fairly expensive to constantly be using spell slots to transfer large amounts of goods through teleporting them. So it may be more economical to transport large amounts of goods via Spelljamming.

So as an individual, teleporting should always make more sense. But transporting large amounts of goods, or invasion armies, or mobile laboratories... feel like Spelljamming is a better fit.

 

[Maxperson]

However, here is the issue. Portals are a superior way to get from "plane" to "plane" over spelljammers. A large enough gate can allow for a wagon or even a wagon train to instantly and safely pass from Oerth to Kyrnn with none of the threats of taking a Spelljammer through monster and pirate infested space.

It's not like there's an Office of Portal use that shows everyone a convenient portal to wherever they want to go. You have to get lucky to find a portal to exactly where you want to go. Or hell, even a portal anywhere. That portal to Krynn you want? Well it's on the 17th level of Undermountain and you have to have a severed green dragon head to trigger it.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I had previously liked the idea of fusing Planescape and Spelljammer (while I have played in both settings, it would have been back when they were first introduced so I barely remember either. I'm not a "fan" in that I know little about them, but I like both settings)...

... but I have been convinced by this thread that we need both of them. And in separate products.