Unearthed Arcana Unearthed Arcana: Wizards & Warlocks -- Hexblades, Raven Queens, and Lore Mastery!

Master of Hexes
Starting at 14th level, you can use your
Hexblade’s Curse again without resting, but
when you apply it to a new target, the curse
immediately ends on the previous target.


Does this mean you can cast it one more time, or over and over again? And does the 1 minute duration reset upon a new target, or does it continue from the previous target?
 

cbwjm

Legend
I wouldn't mind seeing that they had to prepare the modified versions ahead of time and they cost a higher slot but at the same effect level. So for example, to prepare a spell with a different element it must be cast at a minimum slot of it's level +1 and you calculate it's effect at a level of slot -1. So cold ball has to be cast at a minimum of a 4th level spell, but when calculating the damage it is considered a 3rd level spell. If you cast it as a 5th level spell the damage is at 4th level.

This allows a wizard to adjust their spells but still gives per-eminance to the sorcerer who can alter spells on the fly.
If forcing the wizard to prepare the altered spell ahead of time, I don't think it is a good idea to require a higher level spell slot as well, it's too punishing.
 

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pdegan2814

First Post
If forcing the wizard to prepare the altered spell ahead of time, I don't think it is a good idea to require a higher level spell slot as well, it's too punishing.

I would agree, and I lean more towards the "must prepare ahead of time" requirement, it's more in character for a Wizard. Burning a higher level slot to change it on the fly feels too much like a Sorcerer's Metamagic, which is my biggest problem with the Lore Master. Too much of it feels like a Wizard trying to be a Sorcerer. The skill bonus and Int for Initiative are fine. Switching damage I could be ok with if you had to prepare the altered version, though it still feels OP(Make all your spells deal Force damage and say "F U resistances & immunities!"? They really want to allow that?). Same with Alchemical Casting, it feels too Metamagic-y. Prodigious memory is fine. Master Of Magic I feel like someone's gonna come along and turn that into a gamebreaker.
 

MoonSong

Rules-lawyering drama queen but not a munchkin
If forcing the wizard to prepare the altered spell ahead of time, I don't think it is a good idea to require a higher level spell slot as well, it's too punishing.

Well, not for the element switch. But for Save shift? For Better Empower? For Better Heighten? Those would have to be both prepared ahead of time and need a higher level slot.

Maybe not go with fire and forget, but Indeed I would cap the amount of element shifted spells at Int bonus.
 

There's no disadvantage with a staff. It works with polearm master and a shield.


IMO:
Level 1: You can use Cha to-hit, but still use Str/Dex for damage.

Invocation: Life Thirsting blade
You gain proficiency in martial weapons. At level 5 you can multi-attack. At level 11 you can add +Cha to your damage.
I could live with charisma to hit. But the paladin also gets charisma as a to hit bonus at level 3... it just aligns too well...

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zaratan

First Post
I could live with charisma to hit. But the paladin also gets charisma as a to hit bonus at level 3... it just aligns too well...

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Is just devotion, the less picked subclass, that gives that, burn one action and just for 1 minute.

Paladins with powerful two hand weapon don't get the Cha use, staff with polearm master or the one hand don't get the 2d8invocations. If you want the 2d8 invocatiins you don't get Cha to attack. No one use flail or mace in this edition, so nice they think about that, the small race can ubersmite in melee too, or pick hexblade and use cha with any weapon. Crossbow experts can't use moon bow... well this at the end looks preatty balanced. Restricted, but balanced.
My only objection is about moon bow that doesn't work with lightbow, there's no option to a small archer with 2d8invocations. And half or the archers races are small.
 

Is just devotion, the less picked subclass, that gives that, burn one action and just for 1 minute.

Paladins with powerful two hand weapon don't get the Cha use, staff with polearm master or the one hand don't get the 2d8invocations. If you want the 2d8 invocatiins you don't get Cha to attack. No one use flail or mace in this edition, so nice they think about that, the small race can ubersmite in melee too, or pick hexblade and use cha with any weapon. Crossbow experts can't use moon bow... well this at the end looks preatty balanced. Restricted, but balanced.
My only objection is about moon bow that doesn't work with lightbow, there's no option to a small archer with 2d8invocations. And half or the archers races are small.
Sorry. I can't be convinced otherwise here... i am strictly against cha to hit and damage at level 1 at no cost.

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Garresh

First Post
Sorry. I can't be convinced otherwise here... i am strictly against cha to hit and damage at level 1 at no cost.

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I think most people are. It needs to be an invocation available to Hexblades at level 3 once they get Pact of the Blade. It would be best as a level 3 invocation that lets them use Cha for one handed weapons, and allows them to attach some additional rider as well so it has some oomph to it. Something like Cha to one-handed weapons, and when they hit someone they can spend a bonus action to lower their speed by half, or give them disadvantage on their next attack. Mini-hexes basically like the kind you see on cantrips so it incentivizes them to fight in melee and makes it stand apart from Eldritch Blast spam.
 

Barolo

First Post
Sorry. I can't be convinced otherwise here... i am strictly against cha to hit and damage at level 1 at no cost.

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The way I see it, this looks more like some sort of attempt to "fix" the competition created by tomelock with shillelagh+booming blade or green-flame blade. Going tomelock and grabbing these cantrips goes a long way into having a melee warlock which is not only viable but also sort of makes the current bladelock a little redundant, or should I say, less appealing.

All in all I feel the blame would fall on shillelagh itself, as in its current form this cantrip is better for a multiclass tomelock paladin, or for a nature cleric than it is for the poor druid.
 

zaratan

First Post
I think most people are. It needs to be an invocation available to Hexblades at level 3 once they get Pact of the Blade. It would be best as a level 3 invocation that lets them use Cha for one handed weapons, and allows them to attach some additional rider as well so it has some oomph to it. Something like Cha to one-handed weapons, and when they hit someone they can spend a bonus action to lower their speed by half, or give them disadvantage on their next attack. Mini-hexes basically like the kind you see on cantrips so it incentivizes them to fight in melee and makes it stand apart from Eldritch Blast spam.

Another invocation cost? This is a vad idea, would be easier let them use Cha only when reach level 2. Two level deep to multiclass for that yes a good delay and you miss one ASI too. Only work for one hand and you still need mid levels in str or dex for AC.
 

The way I see it, this looks more like some sort of attempt to "fix" the competition created by tomelock with shillelagh+booming blade or green-flame blade. Going tomelock and grabbing these cantrips goes a long way into having a melee warlock which is not only viable but also sort of makes the current bladelock a little redundant, or should I say, less appealing.

All in all I feel the blame would fall on shillelagh itself, as in its current form this cantrip is better for a multiclass tomelock paladin, or for a nature cleric than it is for the poor druid.
Yes. Shillelagh and also polearm mastery working with staffs are to blame. But for a pure tome warlock no real harm is done.
The scag cantrips are ok in my book since they don't stack with multiple attacks and are not always the best choice.
pact of the blade indeed needs a little buff... but that is the wrong way to do it because of multiclassing. Make it a level 3 invokation for blade pact warlocks and everything is fine.

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Garresh

First Post
Another invocation cost? This is a vad idea, would be easier let them use Cha only when reach level 2. Two level deep to multiclass for that yes a good delay and you miss one ASI too. Only work for one hand and you still need mid levels in str or dex for AC.

Nah. The idea is you're already sinking an invocation for 2 handed style via Curse Bringer. Since this only applies to one handed, its a separate invocation, so you're still only spending 2 by level 5 either way. Plus it allows us to bump up the melee option via riders to exceed Eldritch Blast, which is sorely needed since otherwise even a deep melee one handed build will do better at range than melee, which is just goofy.
 

Chaosmancer

Legend
You say this, but the Warlock is currently cannibalizing the themes of the Cleric, and has been so for some time now. Why is it ok to take from the Cleric, or the other classes for that matter, but not the Sorcerer?
The warlock/cleric comparison is a bit odd for me.
Both gain power from an outside entity, but Clerics are conduits of their god’s will manifest on earth. The Warlock cut a deal, either for power, desire, or survival.

For me, divine magic is all about community (this is probably stolen from FR and I’ve probably said it before). The god is powered by the worship and devotion of their community, all the people who believe in them. They gather up all those little shards of power, and then redistribute some of them back down to the clerics, whose purpose is to defend that community and bring more people into the fold.

The entities that grant warlocks their power aren’t like this. They are either independently powerful (like fey and GOO) or have the souls and hierarchy of Hell fueling them (fiend). Either way, there is not a large community of people openly worshipping Dis, like there is for Pelor.

This gets weird when you add dark, secretive deities, or decide that the gods of the monstrous races aren’t really gods and can only make warlocks instead of clerics. Personally, I have found in my homebrew that I don’t like “enemy gods” very much, so most of my darker deities have been moderated. IF you want to worship something evil with no regard for life, that’s what the Abyss and Hells are for, you’ve got plenty to choose from, but worshiping the Lord of Iron or the Master of Secrets should be more acceptable than worshipping Asmodeus or Orcus.

Also, beyond theme, there is almost no mechanical overlap between the two, which is my own personal biggest complaint with the Wizard and Sorcerer. This particular line of conversation comes from the response of the mechanical overlap being “just play a wizard and say it is a sorcerer” from some corners, which implies no issue in removing the sorcerer from the game entirely.
 

I almost hate to bring this up, since it will undoubtedly bring in complaints of "WotC hates 4e fluff" to yet another thread, but they don't actually call the Raven Queen a god in the UA. She is a "a mysterious
being who rules the Shadowfell from a palace of ice deep within that dread realm." So, in the generic sense, it isn't the case of "gods having warlocks" (unless you are playing in the Points of Light).

I have mixed feelings on the whole "are clerics and warlocks really the same thing", mostly because I think it would have worked out better if paladins and bladelocks had been subclasses of some magical champion class (if you patron type is a celestial, you are a paladin; if it is a fiend, you are a hellblade; etc.).

I echo [MENTION=6801228]Chaosmancer[/MENTION], for warlocks and clerics. While a warlock can use his/her abilities for the group's good, the abilities are all pretty much focused on the warlock's utility and damage. You can build a cleric that is self focused easily enough, but the class contains a lot of things that are as likely to help another party member as the cleric (healing, blessing, removing conditions). So, while the cleric may not be locked into the "leader" role like in 4e, it can support that role.

If they had a lot more celestials and fey, I would say you could fuse the cleric and warlock into some kind of channeller (similar to the magical champion I mentioned before, but at X level, you can channel the spells known by and magical powers of your patron type critter at level Y or lower), but I don't see that as viable currently in 5e.
 

Al2O3

Explorer
I almost hate to bring this up, since it will undoubtedly bring in complaints of "WotC hates 4e fluff" to yet another thread, but they don't actually call the Raven Queen a god in the UA. She is a "a mysterious
being who rules the Shadowfell from a palace of ice deep within that dread realm." So, in the generic sense, it isn't the case of "gods having warlocks" (unless you are playing in the Points of Light).

I have mixed feelings on the whole "are clerics and warlocks really the same thing", mostly because I think it would have worked out better if paladins and bladelocks had been subclasses of some magical champion class (if you patron type is a celestial, you are a paladin; if it is a fiend, you are a hellblade; etc.).

I echo [MENTION=6801228]Chaosmancer[/MENTION], for warlocks and clerics. While a warlock can use his/her abilities for the group's good, the abilities are all pretty much focused on the warlock's utility and damage. You can build a cleric that is self focused easily enough, but the class contains a lot of things that are as likely to help another party member as the cleric (healing, blessing, removing conditions). So, while the cleric may not be locked into the "leader" role like in 4e, it can support that role.

If they had a lot more celestials and fey, I would say you could fuse the cleric and warlock into some kind of channeller (similar to the magical champion I mentioned before, but at X level, you can channel the spells known by and magical powers of your patron type critter at level Y or lower), but I don't see that as viable currently in 5e.
I am one of those who really likes 4e and in particular the Raven Queen. Add such I love that they are bringing her back. Since the Forgotten Realms is the setting of many adventures in 5e I like that they do it in a way that fits in that setting and still keeps most aspects of her intact.

Unless she does "F***, marry, kill" with Kelemvor in all three spots she doesn't really have a clear place in the Forgotten Realms. This solution maintains all parts of her that do not include being the God of the dead (and a great epic level story for those who want change it).

The more I think about it, the more excited I become about the solution. Now just give us a lazylord play style class and I for one can't come up with any 4e-related complaints about 5e.

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Tyler Havard

First Post
Am I over thinking this? In the artical of the Hexblade, you make a pact with a magic sentient weapon. Pact of the blade allows you to bond with a magic weapon or create one. You can not change a magic weapon into another weapon. At lv.2 you can manifest the curse bringer as your weapon. So my conundrum is, does the sentience transfer to what ever weapon your bound to or is it like a vessel for your hexblade sentients? Being a hexblade allows you to change the weapons form regardless of what the pact of the blade has written?
Um, I believe that's it. Thanks for the help! I look forward to any clarification.
 

zaratan

First Post
Nah. The idea is you're already sinking an invocation for 2 handed style via Curse Bringer. Since this only applies to one handed, its a separate invocation, so you're still only spending 2 by level 5 either way. Plus it allows us to bump up the melee option via riders to exceed Eldritch Blast, which is sorely needed since otherwise even a deep melee one handed build will do better at range than melee, which is just goofy.

well, charge another invocation for this would only move away more people from bladelock and push them in eldritch blast. Who go deep for the benefit of Cha will do the same way, and will get that invocation too. Eldritch blast isn't the best option compared to GFB or BB until level 5, and start to be amazing at level 11, so just give better Invocations for one handed melee user starting at level 5 (than 11/17), this will keep the "2/3 lvl deepers" way. If this would made, should be a benefit that everyone would want, like:
"when you hit a creature with a melee one handed weapon attack, add 1d6 in the damage, provinient from Hex spell, without use spellslot or concentration.", hexblade can use smite spell without concentration, cast X spell bonus action, extra move or prone, push, grab, frighten... (ok, this start to look like fighter).
 

Mercule

Adventurer
Am I over thinking this? In the artical of the Hexblade, you make a pact with a magic sentient weapon. Pact of the blade allows you to bond with a magic weapon or create one. You can not change a magic weapon into another weapon. At lv.2 you can manifest the curse bringer as your weapon. So my conundrum is, does the sentience transfer to what ever weapon your bound to or is it like a vessel for your hexblade sentients? Being a hexblade allows you to change the weapons form regardless of what the pact of the blade has written?
Um, I believe that's it. Thanks for the help! I look forward to any clarification.
Overthinking. I actually read it in such a way that you don't necessarily carry the blade, just a "shadow" of it. The actual blade could be an artifact level item, somewhere remote from you. If you actually take Blade Pact, your eldritch weapon just takes on aspects of your patron.

So, you could play a peasant boy whose parents were slain by some evil overlord. The Sword of Kas visits you in your dreams and offers you the power to defend all that is yours and never again suffer at the hands of another. You say "Sure thing, Dude." Now, you can manifest a pact blade and do other cool stuff. Ultimately, the Sword of Kas wants you to find it and release it into the world, but that doesn't have to happen until the end of the campaign, if ever (not all Warlocks "win").

Now, I might be missing some bit of text that says you have an actual, physical weapon that's really and truly the weapon to which you're pledged. So be it. But... of all the classes, I think the Warlock is the one, thematically, that lends itself best to little tweaks that bring out flavor and make every character unique. In fact, I think it's almost a requirement for Warlock.

Edit: Also, as cool as I think the default "weapon from the Shadowfell" is, I think there's a lot more potential in the kit if you can uncouple it from being that specific.
 

pdegan2814

First Post
Am I over thinking this? In the artical of the Hexblade, you make a pact with a magic sentient weapon. Pact of the blade allows you to bond with a magic weapon or create one. You can not change a magic weapon into another weapon. At lv.2 you can manifest the curse bringer as your weapon. So my conundrum is, does the sentience transfer to what ever weapon your bound to or is it like a vessel for your hexblade sentients? Being a hexblade allows you to change the weapons form regardless of what the pact of the blade has written?
Um, I believe that's it. Thanks for the help! I look forward to any clarification.

The Blade you wield and the Blade that acts as your Patron are not the same thing. Keep in mind, you don't even have to be a Bladelock as a Hexblade(although I imagine Bladelock will likely be the most popular way to go given how well-matched they are). The example given in the UA is Blackrazor. The sentient force inside Blackrazor is your Patron, but if you become a Bladelock you aren't wielding the actual Blackrazor as your Pact weapon. It's merely a weapon forged with the power given to you by Blackrazor.
 

Ganymede81

First Post
Edit: Also, as cool as I think the default "weapon from the Shadowfell" is, I think there's a lot more potential in the kit if you can uncouple it from being that specific.

I agree... perhaps the vision is of a woman's hand penetrating from the surface of a glassy lake, clutching a pristine longsword (though Arthurian Legend skews strongly Archfey as well).
 

jrowland

First Post
Look, it is ok that you don't like the sorcerer. But you are going too far by saying it is unneeded and invalid. Yes, maybe the Lore master could be on line with all other classes, maybe the sorcerer is underpowered the odd one out. But to then go out and say that the solution is to get rid of it, that is too far.

Being an "odd duck" and having the "spontaneous casting" trope being an invalid "reason" for the sorcerer are not saying the sorcerer as a class is unneeded and invalid. You are reading too much into what I said.
 

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