D&D General Unpopular Opinion?: D&D is a terrible venue for horror

[Ralif Redhammer]

Oh, definitely. I got slaughtered going into Bloodborne at first, before I adjusted my strategies. From Software always challenges the player to learn from their mistakes, pay attention to the game, and to get better.

Pardon the aside, but I have this pet theory that definitely isn’t true, that Bloodborne and Sekiro were in part responses to the way Dark Souls was played. Players got really cautious and passive, keeping their shields up while they waited for an opportunity to attack. So, Fromsoft made Bloodborne, where aggressive play is rewarded and the shield is replaced with a gun so you can still parry but you can’t sit there and block constantly. Then players played that by using the gun as a gun instead of a parrying tool and avoiding damage almost exclusively by dodging. So Fromsoft made Sekiro, where dodging will only get you so far and you really just have to learn to parry if you want to win.

I haven’t gotten good at Sekiro yet, but considering how much better getting good at Bloodborne made me at Dark Souls, I’d be excited to try it again after I’ve gotten the hang of Sekiro.

Back to the subject at hand, I think D&D has always dipped its toe (and more) into horror. From the ultradense funhouse dungeon of Tegel Manor (which, for a 1977 book, has a ton of creepy atmospheric touches) to I6 to the Realm of Terror Ravenloft campaign setting to the Book of Vile Darkness to Curse of Strahd to Rime of the Frostmaiden and more. The cleric was inspired by Hammer Horror films. Werewolves, vampires, and other undead were in the game from the very beginning.

 

[TheSword]

I watched the first Purge Film last night. It’s described as ‘dystopian action horror’ and I would support that assessment.

Ethan certainly burns through a few Hp in that film. As does Lena.

I think trying to pin down something as nebulous as d&d and say it’s no good for something as nebulous as horror seems like a fools errand.

D&D moved well beyond knocking down doors and murderhobo-ing a couple of decades ago. The published adventures certainly moved away from this.

We started two face to face campaigns last weekend that we had been planning for a long time. I DMd Odyssey of the Dragon Lords where the PCs are absolutely not murder hobos by any definition I’ve seen, and would have a very difficult time if they were.

The second was the Saltmarsh reprint that I played in. We spent two thirds of the session building relationships in town and one third traveling to the first ‘adventure’ location. We’re looking for murderers to bring to justice not murderhoboing.

 

[bloodtide]

Horror works just fine in D&D: it's all about how you play the game.

The idea of a modern D&D game is a friendly collaborative storytelling soft adventure where the players can have their characters kill monsters and feel like Big Dam Heroes. In this set up the game world is not just "fair and balanced", but it's favored towards the PCs to an extreme. Foes are little more then targets set up for the players to have fun taking out. Traps and puzzles are just very easy, very breif distractions. There are only light consequences and few long lasting effects. The players can CureAll or hit the Reset Button with no effort and fix anything. And the players have little fear of character death or even harm (other then the yuck yuck silly loss of auto healed hit points) or even anything slightly negative, both story wise and game rule mechanical wise.

In the Big Dam Heroes Style the PC's get into a couple fights that they AUTO win, AUTO solve any puzzle mystery and Save the Day....with ease. This is by choice, as most players and DMs want the game exactly this way.

Of course, if you imply don't do all the above, then Horror fits into the game just fine.

If you do the Hard Fun Style: the game is a semi friendly story hard adventure where the players have to fight to keep thier characters alive and healthy. The game world is unfair and not balanced, and the PCs are shown no favor whatsoever. Many foes are horrible and will kill the characters or do worse on a whim. Traps and puzzles are hard...often "impossible" to many players. There are consequences for everything, often bad ones. The players have no 'special things' they can do and can't ever fix anything. The players fear character death and character harm and it's quite common for a character to be forced to live with a massive negative effect.

 

[TheSword]

Chop of limbs, then give them enchanted skeletal limbs as replacements... that’s what I say.

 

[Orius]

This is flat out false. Some of the greatest horror movies in cinema have excellently crafted plots and lean on innate human fears: Alien, Jaws, Tremors, The Shining, The Eye, The Haunting, A tale of two sisters, to name a few. The latter especially has a pretty clever plot. I had to watch it twice to understand it fully. And Tremors is also really clever, with both the creatures and their prey trying to outsmart each other.

Except that I don't find them frightening at all. Alien wasn't a bad film, but xenomorphs don't scare me, even with the chest bursting. And Jaws? That's about a natural predator, not a monster. Predators are dangerous, but not frightening to me. The scariest thing about Jaws was how stupid the town's officials were. I think they're all going to need a bigger brain. The other films are either monster movies or "scary" movies, and that just doesn't interest me.

It goes without saying that horror is not for everybody. And I think it takes a skilled DM and storyteller to pull it off well. It is a genre that relies a lot on mood and its audience willingness to be drawn into it. I think rules systems matter not that much in this regard, though I think D20 modern is probably better suited for it than 5e.

Agreed, and I'm not likely to get in the mood at all.

It's not just about the safety of the character though. D&D is built around the idea of the PCs kicking down doors, killing monsters, and taking their stuff as a core element of game play. It's not really built with horror sensibilities in mind.

Well look at D&D's influences, like Conan. Howard wrote his stories for Weird Tales, which went for horror. And in many stories Conan faced things that were supposed to be horrific. Where he could, Conan usually ended up defeating the horrors. He did run away in some stories when he couldn't defeat something, but usually he'd be kicking ass instead.

 

[MGibster]

Horror when PCs are too powerful? Doom Eternal or Diablo IV, for example.

I guess the key would be not about the PCs worried about their own survival but how to save loved beings, for example sidekicks or animal companions.

I know I'm the one who said we shouldn't quibble too much over trying to define horror, but Doom? I was there, LuisCarlos17f! I was there when ZModem and Procomm Plus was the way we downloaded the demo software. When Id Software laid the foundations for the first sprites I was there to fight the cyberdemons and feel the frustration as the Lost Souls fireballed me. And I was there to rejoice when I discovered the hidden alcove with the double barreled shot gun I used to mow down many zombies. I was there, LuisCarlos17f, and although I cannot deny Doom is a horror game I cannot say I ever thought of it as a horror game.

 

[Remathilis]

I've always found D&D does Dark Fantasy better than horror. The difference between Castlevania and Dracula.

 

[Reynard]

I know I'm the one who said we shouldn't quibble too much over trying to define horror, but Doom? I was there, LuisCarlos17f! I was there when ZModem and Procomm Plus was the way we downloaded the demo software. When Id Software laid the foundations for the first sprites I was there to fight the cyberdemons and feel the frustration as the Lost Souls fireballed me. And I was there to rejoice when I discovered the hidden alcove with the double barreled shot gun I used to mow down many zombies. I was there, LuisCarlos17f, and although I cannot deny Doom is a horror game I cannot say I ever thought of it as a horror game.

Ironically, Doom is based on Carmack's AD&D campaign. If you haven't, read "Masters of Doom." Super interesting story.

 

[Bawylie]

I've always found D&D does Dark Fantasy better than horror. The difference between Castlevania and Dracula.

This is a hell of a point.

Does “horror in d&d” require the players to (at times and to varied degrees) feel scared?

OR

Are the dark fantasy trappings and ambiance enough to satisfy the horror genre?

And? Or? Both? I’m certainly curious to see some opinions.

 

[Imaculata]

Does “horror in d&d” require the players to (at times and to varied degrees) feel scared?

OR

Are the dark fantasy trappings and ambiance enough to satisfy the horror genre?

And? Or? Both? I’m certainly curious to see some opinions.

I think the first is probably a lofty goal. If the DM succeeds to make some of his players feel scared, that is a great accomplishment, but the latter should probably be the expectation.

I think no DM will be able to keep his players scared constantly. At best you can aim to keep them at the edge of their seats with a great horror ambiance, and scare them occasionally.