Upper Krust, where are you? [Immortal's Handbook]

[Anubis]

Well, I'm finally back after not being able to find this place for a while because I was too stupid to look at the link on the old site to get to the new site.

I R so smart, S M R T . . .

Anyway, UK, wassup? How's the work coming along? Anythign major going on now that the Epc Level Handbook is finally out?

Especially CRs of creatures . . . Those Epic Monster, are their CRs okay, or should we use your formula to adjust them?

Any thoughts on a release date yet?

Hope to hear from you soon!

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Anubis mate!

I saw your other thread in the General discussion Forum and had a feeling you might give a shout out!

Well, I'm finally back after not being able to find this place for a while because I was too stupid to look at the link on the old site to get to the new site.

I R so smart, S M R T . . .

Ah well - nothing to beat yourself up over mate!

Anyway, UK, wassup? How's the work coming along?

Going great! You're gonna love this!

Anythign major going on now that the Epc Level Handbook is finally out?

I don't yet have that book (another week here I think), but if the Epic Level Handbook enters the SRD at the same time as Deities & Demigods then I may use one or two ideas from it - but likely nothing major.

Especially CRs of creatures . . . Those Epic Monster, are their CRs okay, or should we use your formula to adjust them?

Better to be safe than sorry! Like I said I don't have the book yet but from what I know there should be nothing in that book higher than CR44. It should only take a minute to check a monsters CR anyway...wheres the harm in that.

By the way I take it you saw the article I wrote on Challenge Ratings in Asgard magazine Issue #6!?

Any thoughts on a release date yet?

I will be ready with the first section as soon as Deities & Demigods enters the SRD.

Hope to hear from you soon!

Here I am!

 

[Anubis]

Glad to hear you're doing well, and also glad that the Immortal's Handbook is one step closer to completion. I saw the article in Asgard, very cool, you did well.

As for the ELH . . . Whoa . . . It's totally awesome . . .

I hope D&D hits the SRD soon along with the ELH!

I'm still working on gettin gmy book published . . . It's so damn hard! Ugh!

Anyway, I'm glad to be back ,and glad to hear everything's cool with you!

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Anubis mate!

Glad to hear you're doing well, and also glad that the Immortal's Handbook is one step closer to completion.

Me too!

I saw the article in Asgard, very cool, you did well.

A lot of it was stuff I had already mentioned here in the boards, but it was nice to see it condensed.

As for the ELH . . . Whoa . . . It's totally awesome . . .

Glad to hear it! I have been looking forward to that book for ages!

I hope D&D hits the SRD soon along with the ELH!

I hope so too!

I'm still working on getting my book published . . . It's so damn hard! Ugh!

Keep trying! Never give up!

Although you are in a more difficult situation than me - lot tougher to get fantasy novels published than game material I would imagine!?

Anyway, I'm glad to be back ,and glad to hear everything's cool with you!

Glad to have you back.

I'll be sure and inform everyone here on the boards when the time comes.

 

[S'mon]

Hey Craig, what do you think of my Mage/Force Armor magic item idea? I just couldn't bear the thought of Thrin flouncing around in wimpy bracers instead of Full Plate!

On the downside, today I bit the bullet and decided to 'level down' the epic level characters in my multiverse by applying your CR mod rules to their levels - I've been unhappy for a long time at the thought of Doomstar being 519th level in 3e, it's a totally different kettle of fish from 1e. I applied as follows:

1-20 levels convert 1-1
21-40 converts 1-2
41-80 converts 1-4
81-160 converts 1-8
161-320 converts 1-16
321-640 converts 1-32

Doing this, Doomstar works out at only 66th level, but I'll boost his stats to compensate, so that the actual power level is about the same as in 1e - roughly 50% stronger than a pantheon-head deity. Eg I think he should have about 1320 hp in 3e which is 20 hp/die, implying CON around 41 (+ item boosts). Thrin converts to just 40 levels (!!), but as a lesser god gets 20 Outsider hit dice in addition, following DDG, so he's 60hd. His 25 STR's +14 dmg equates to STR 38 in 3e.

I think higher-stats, lower-levels is more in keeping with the 3e approach and the ELH. Thoughts?

 

[S'mon]

Doing this, Doomstar works out at only 66th level, but I'll boost his stats to compensate, so that the actual power level is about the same as in 1e - roughly 50% stronger than a pantheon-head deity.

Although in 1e Doomstar had about 560 hp, a pantheon head deity on home plane had 800, but Doomstar could do around 1000hp damage with a single magical attack.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Simon!

Hey Craig, what do you think of my Mage/Force Armor magic item idea?

There definately needs to be something along those lines for 3rd Ed. Though I have had a few ideas myself - see my reply in that thread.

I just couldn't bear the thought of Thrin flouncing around in wimpy bracers instead of Full Plate!

I actually created a Salient Divine Ability just so Thrin...*cough*...I mean all gods could wear armour without penalty.

On the downside, today I bit the bullet and decided to 'level down' the epic level characters in my multiverse by applying your CR mod rules to their levels

I don't know if thats such a good idea, I think the WotC conversion method may be adequate.

- I've been unhappy for a long time at the thought of Doomstar being 519th level in 3e, it's a totally different kettle of fish from 1e. I applied as follows:

1-20 levels convert 1-1
21-40 converts 1-2
41-80 converts 1-4
81-160 converts 1-8
161-320 converts 1-16
321-640 converts 1-32

Obviously Doomstar is a bit of a campaign problem child but I think you may want to leave his conversion up to me.

The main problem I am having after the level spread between Wiz and Psi classes:

519th-level
260 Wizard; 259 Psion (divided by 3) = 86
260 + 86 = 346th-level character (Wizard 173/Psion 173) = CR60 (equal to a 'weak' Overgod).

Zeus, by contrast, is CR49.

...is that he should supposedly have the wealth of a 346th-level character (4.142 Billion GP). This entitles him to a number of unbelievable options even at the exhorbitant prices I have in the IH. Though he may have trouble meeting the XP costs to create them!

His natural ability scores were pretty crap as I recall. He should end up with:

Original Ability Score + 15 (average stat increase through levelling) + 5 (inherant bonus for wishes) + Magic Items (with his wealth this could be where things get tricky, though remember he won't have any bonuses in an Anti-Magic Field)

Doing this, Doomstar works out at only 66th level, but I'll boost his stats to compensate, so that the actual power level is about the same as in 1e - roughly 50% stronger than a pantheon-head deity.

Well the problem here is that I don't think you will be able to compensate (certainly not within the laws of the game).

Eg I think he should have about 1320 hp in 3e which is 20 hp/die, implying CON around 41 (+ item boosts).

Zeus has 1550 hp in 3rd Ed. (about an extra 400 when he rages)

At 346th-level he will have about 866hp + CON.

Con 30 = 4326hp (which I could live with as his natural hp)

However you would think Doomstar will put the majority of his ability score bonuses into INT and CHA (for Psions). So his CON may be in the 20's

Con 50 = 7786hp

Con 70 = 11,246hp

etc.

Doomstar; I think; would be capable of making items that could boost his ability scores by +58

Cost 33.64 million GP
However, costing 1.34 million XP to him - so he might not be able to meet that cost (thats about 4 levels lost per item created; I'm not sure if you can expend levels to make items). If not he would be limited to ability score enhancement of about +28.

The high XP costs are the reasons most 'artifacts' are of Divine origins - since they can expend WP to make them.

Thrin converts to just 40 levels (!!),

Actually Thrin would convert to level 44 but I still don't think thats going to 'cut the mustard' for me!

With the exception of Quetzalcoatl; Thrin was higher level than any deity in 1st Ed. He converts to 80th-level using the WotC conversion rules, which seemingly balances him perfectly with D&Dg 3rd Ed.

but as a lesser god gets 20 Outsider hit dice in addition, following DDG, so he's 60hd.

Actually he doesn't get the Outsider HD because hes an ascended mortal.

I'll bring you over D&Dg in a few weeks and you can 'give it a butchers'.

His 25 STR's +14 dmg equates to STR 38 in 3e.

Let me worry about things like that!

I think higher-stats, lower-levels is more in keeping with the 3e approach and the ELH. Thoughts?

Not a good idea.

 

[S'mon]

Let me worry about things like that!


Not a good idea.

Hi Craig - well, I'll see what you come up with in the IH. My concept of Doomstar was always somewhat 'eggshell armed with hammer' - he can do ridiculous amounts of damage but is not invulnerable. I'm not sure how best to model this in 3e. 519th level in 3e seems a lot more powerful than in 1e, for instance. Thrin would be 40th level if you apply the official multiclass conversion and then the CR limiter on top, I agree it may be too low, although as a lesser god Thrin was never the most powerful deity around - many greater gods were more powerful in a straight fight, mostly due to divine weapons doing lots of d10s damage (Thor at 10d10+ bonuses the ultimate example).

I still think some kind of level conversion for 20+ is needed, although the one I used may be too harsh. Perhaps 1:2 for levels 21-60, 1:3 for levels 61-120, 1:4 for levels 121-200 etc would be better.

 

[Gez]

For the release date... Don't hold your breath, it's not going to be anytime soon.

First, WotC needs to open, read, match, and considerate 10000+ submissions.

Then, their intern will be able to go on to his first and foremost mission: works on the SRD. Since monsters and spells still aren't in (psionic powers description aren't even in the draft!), and given the hi speed of WotC for this kind of thing, we can expect the SRD to be finalised with the three core books and the psi ones in the early 2003.

Then maybe they'll thought about convincing the "people with forked hair" at WotC and Hasbro that adding ELH and D&Dg to the SRD won't cause a bankrupcy nor even a little money loss.

And that's supposing they don't begin their SRD additions by some splatbook/Dragon Mag/FRCS/d20 modern/non-copyrighted parts of SW, WoT, etc.

I think the IH will be legaly able to be published next July, assuming the intern don't get fired.

 

[S'mon]

Hi Craig - well, I'll see what you come up with in the IH. My concept of Doomstar was always somewhat 'eggshell armed with hammer' - he can do ridiculous amounts of damage but is not invulnerable. I'm not sure how best to model this in 3e. 519th level in 3e seems a lot more powerful than in 1e, for instance. Thrin would be 40th level if you apply the official multiclass conversion and then the CR limiter on top, I agree it may be too low, although as a lesser god Thrin was never the most powerful deity around - many greater gods were more powerful in a straight fight, mostly due to divine weapons doing lots of d10s damage (Thor at 10d10+ bonuses the ultimate example).

I still think some kind of level conversion for 20+ is needed, although the one I used may be too harsh. Perhaps 1:2 for levels 21-60, 1:3 for levels 61-120, 1:4 for levels 121-200 etc would be better.

Applying this seems to give good results - Thrin works out at 48th (or 58th if not given 1/3 of multiclass levels before conversion), Doomstar at 134th which would seem to be about the right power level.