Vital spot OR Can a halfling sneak attack a human?

[Dark Dragon]

Hi,

second session under a new DM, again a question quite trivial, IMHO (for the first question, see the Gloves of Storing thread ).

Well, here we go: Last session, the party fought a hard battle with a bunch of fighter trolls. One of the party's rogue (an elf) ganged up with the paladin to flank a troll....

Me: I try to sneak him with my rapier. The troll is fighting the paladin, so...

DM: You can attack the troll, but because you can't reach a vital spot, you don't deal sneak damage.

Me: What? The troll is 9 ft tall, my elf over 5 ft and he can't reach a vital spot? Are his kidneys or 'nads not vital??

DM: No, take the picture in the PHB (showing monster sizes). So, you can't sneak attack a larger creature, because you can't attack a vital spot.

Player of the halfling: So, my halfling can't sneak attack a human in melee combat??

DM: No. Period.

??? WTF???


I don't post the rest of the discussion here. We were quite unhappy about that ruling that weakens the rogues again. I should mention that the rogue players proposed a house rule that allows only one sneak attack per round (because it needs high accuracy and thus can be used only once. Remaining attacks are used normally).

So, here's my question: Is there any ruling that says what (and where) vital spots are? Just to convince the DM by using the rules...Or should he take part in a course for anatomy?

 

[Darklone]

A good stab in the leg can easily kill someone if you hit one of the main blood vessels.

 

[Sagan Darkside]

So, here's my question: Is there any ruling that says what (and where) vital spots are? Just to convince the DM by using the rules...Or should he take part in a course for anatomy?

Well, he is the dm, but he should not be springing house rules in the middle of a session.

Your best bet is to get someone else to dm. As long as he runs it- it is his game.. he can make whatever house rule he pleases.

SD

 

[isoChron]

A good stab in the leg can easily kill someone if you hit one of the main blood vessels.

Yes ! Sure ! But our DM says that this is not a vital spot, 'cause if a fighter hits hard with a longsword he can easlily open that blood vessel, too. Since he has no Sneak Attack this could be no vital spot....
Hmm, no argument for me .....

 

[isoChron]

Re: Re: Vital spot OR Can a halfling sneak attack a human?

Well, he is the dm, but he should not be springing house rules in the middle of a session.

Your best bet is to get someone else to dm. As long as he runs it- it is his game.. he can make whatever house rule he pleases.

SD

That's not completly true: We change the DM and every now and than everyone in our group will become DM. So we have to negotiate all house rules ! No one can make his own rules set because we agreed to play a more predictable set of rules. Every ones character goes through all stories by all DM. It's an ongoing FR-campaign with switching DM's.

 

[Pooka]

DM: You can attack the troll, but because you can't reach a vital spot, you don't deal sneak damage.

Me: What? The troll is 9 ft tall, my elf over 5 ft and he can't reach a vital spot? Are his kidneys or 'nads not vital??

DM: No, take the picture in the PHB (showing monster sizes). So, you can't sneak attack a larger creature, because you can't attack a vital spot.

Player of the halfling: So, my halfling can't sneak attack a human in melee combat??

DM: No. Period.

??? WTF???


I don't post the rest of the discussion here. We were quite unhappy about that ruling that weakens the rogues again. I should mention that the rogue players proposed a house rule that allows only one sneak attack per round (because it needs high accuracy and thus can be used only once. Remaining attacks are used normally).

So, here's my question: Is there any ruling that says what (and where) vital spots are? Just to convince the DM by using the rules...Or should he take part in a course for anatomy?

Hi !

No, I´m not quite unhappy, at least I am really angry !
He´s an idiot!!!

Pooka sneaked humans before and now she can´t any more? That is ridiculous. His argument was that Pooka has to work overhead when she tries to hit a vital spot. And then she can´t aim and she has not the precision needed for a sneak attack. I´m not a surgeon I´m a rogue!!!!
First the thing with my crossbow and now that!
And then he took my only melee weapon ....

Gaming with this DM is no fun!!


Pooka

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

Player of the halfling: So, my halfling can't sneak attack a human in melee combat??

DM: No. Period.

??? WTF???

So, here's my question: Is there any ruling that says what (and where) vital spots are? Just to convince the DM by using the rules...Or should he take part in a course for anatomy?

I don't believe there is a specific rule that says that, but I'd have to say your DM is being pretty annoying. If he wants to take combat that literally, then the whole D&D system is going to fall apart from him. Ask him why a human can only swing a sword once every six seconds at first level, for a start.

D&D combat, like nearly all game combat, is an abstract system, and the sneak attack is to do with specialist training. Yes, the fighter could hit the same artery, but the rogue knows how to hit it that much better, he just takes a moment to get the strike just right.

In short, you DM is being an idiot, and he should have told you about this house rule before he started. Frankly, I can't see the point of being a halfling rogue under that rule.

 

[gariig]

Isn't all of the sneak attack examples in the PH with Lidda..who is a halfling rogue????? Plus, why in the hell would a halfling become a rogue if 90% of the world is invulnerable to their sneak attacks(favored class).

Gariig

 

[Sagan Darkside]

Isn't all of the sneak attack examples in the PH with Lidda..who is a halfling rogue????? Plus, why in the hell would a halfling become a rogue if 90% of the world is invulnerable to their sneak attacks(favored class).

They could stand on big rocks.

SD

 

[Pooka]

Isn't all of the sneak attack examples in the PH with Lidda..who is a halfling rogue????? Plus, why in the hell would a halfling become a rogue if 90% of the world is invulnerable to their sneak attacks(favored class).

Gariig

Hmmm let´s say, when I choose to become halfling rogue i didn´t because of the sneak attack ... that was just for the "flavour" of it.
But that with Lidda is a good point! I will try to convince him with that.
It´s ok, that a small creature cannot sneak a large creature. The knee-cap is not really a vital spot ... but a halfling rogue i expect to be trained to hit humans where it really hurts !


Pooka