Wall of Fire Spell

rvalle said:
Thats the good news. The bad news is the 'when a character moves though that square' part. When moving ALONG a WoF you'll be taking damage in each square. You guys got off easy last time.
On what do you base this ruling? This makes no sense with respect to the ruling that they do not stack, at all. If two spells don't stack, then certainly a single instance of a spell cannot stack in multiple areas. I don't see anything in the spell description that gives you that idea either.
 

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Infiniti2000 said:
So, then, you don't let damage from one longsword (or, say, a spiritual weapon) stack after multiple hits? If you do, please quote a rule that allows this. Note: It's the same rule. :p

Hah, good one. :)

Well, one is weapon damage and one is Spell Effect damage. Its the Spell Effect that has rules about stacking.

Sigh... You guys were close to getting me but I can't get past that often quoted rule.

BTW Guys, thanks for all the input.

rv
 

rvalle said:
Well, one is weapon damage and one is Spell Effect damage. Its the Spell Effect that has rules about stacking.
That's why I also mentioned spiritual weapon. By the same rule, damage from the same spiritual weapon doesn't stack.
 

Infiniti2000 said:
On what do you base this ruling? This makes no sense with respect to the ruling that they do not stack, at all. If two spells don't stack, then certainly a single instance of a spell cannot stack in multiple areas. I don't see anything in the spell description that gives you that idea either.

Ahem, well in part its a bone thrown to me to get over losing the WoF stacking. :)

(At least till the players start to get them... then I'd hate the ruling I'm sure).

I WAS thinking about each 5 foot area being different. Each time you move you are considered to be 'Where the spell is'.

If you evoke the wall so that it appears where creatures are, each creature takes damage as if passing through the wall. If any 5-foot length of wall takes 20 points of cold damage or more in 1 round, that length goes out.

I admit its a judgement call and it seems open for debate but if moving though the spell causes x amount of damage surely moving along it causes more...

Hmmm. There is a flaw in that idea. If one just stays in place you take x amount of damage. If someone moves 5 spaces along the wall she will take 5x and then none for the spaces out of the wall. So staying still causes less damage then moving along it and then out.

Bleah...
 

Infiniti2000 said:
I read them as identical, otherwise how vague do you want to get? Same city == same area? Even if you just choose overlapping areas, two parallel walls of fire inches apart are not overlapping at all. They do not have the same area. The area for a wall of fire is a "sheet of flame up to 20 ft. long/level or a ring of fire with a radius of up to 5 ft. per two levels; either form 20 ft. high". It may damage things outside its area of Effect, but that doesn't change its area of Effect.

Okay. Going that route, it would seem applying the "differing strengths" rule to areas would lead to strange results. Would two Solid Fogs that have the same exact point of origin not stack, while one two inches away from the other stack? Seems like a gaping loophole, no?
 

Infiniti2000 said:
So, then, you don't let damage from one longsword (or, say, a spiritual weapon) stack after multiple hits? If you do, please quote a rule that allows this. Note: It's the same rule. :p

Just as with the Fireball example, this is resolved by the Instantaneous Effects clause. Since the attack from a weapon (spiritual or otherwise) is an instantaneous effect (regardless of how the duration of the entire spell), it stacks.

I can understand the weakness of this arguement though, because the actual text flip flops on its terminology: "Instantaneous Effects: Two or more spells with instantaneous durations work cumulatively when they affect the same target." I believe that this clause should apply to all effects, not just durations (the same as I think the text refers to all effects, not just bonuses and penalties). YMMV.

Either way, I think we can all agree that this section of the rules text is very craptastically worded.
 

Neverwill said:
Okay. Going that route, it would seem applying the "differing strengths" rule to areas would lead to strange results. Would two Solid Fogs that have the same exact point of origin not stack, while one two inches away from the other stack? Seems like a gaping loophole, no?
We're talking about the damage part of the spell. Two solid fogs would not stack insofar as restricting movement. Neither would two acid fogs, but you'd take all the damage from both acid fogs.
Deset Gled said:
Just as with the Fireball example, this is resolved by the Instantaneous Effects clause. Since the attack from a weapon (spiritual or otherwise) is an instantaneous effect (regardless of how the duration of the entire spell), it stacks.
That's an identical scenario to two walls of fire. You are instantaneously damaged by each, just like with two spiritual weapons, two called lightnings, etc.
Deset Gled said:
Either way, I think we can all agree that this section of the rules text is very craptastically worded.
Agreed. :lol:
 

Infiniti2000 said:
We're talking about the damage part of the spell. Two solid fogs would not stack insofar as restricting movement. Neither would two acid fogs, but you'd take all the damage from both acid fogs.

I agree two Solid Fog spells would not stack regarding the movement penalty. How about the -2 to melee attack and damage rolls? Do these stack when they have identical points of origin? What about if the spells are centered inches apart?
 

Neverwill said:
I agree two Solid Fog spells would not stack regarding the movement penalty. How about the -2 to melee attack and damage rolls? Do these stack when they have identical points of origin?
No, those clearly fall under the rules for bonuses/penalties.

Neverwill said:
What about if the spells are centered inches apart?
This question is misleading. Unlike wall of fire, a solid fog (or acid fog if you want to use a better example) has an area that will more easily overlap with a similar spell, unlike with wall of fire which is two dimensional. Two parallel walls of fire spaced even millimeters apart do not have an overlapping area at all.
 

A perfect spell to bridge the gap between the fireball and firewall example is Ice Storm. It does direct damage. It has a duration. Should it stack?

I say yes. I don't really think having Firewall stack is that big a deal, since even a small amount of fire resistance will make you immune to the whole pile of walls.

DS
 

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