D&D 5E Wandering Monsters: Morons and Salads

[Klaus]

As a quick sidenote, a few years back I created chaos toad-folk for Fiery Dragon (since Slaadi weren't in the SRD). You can get the free PDF detailing the Ogdoad here: http://fierydragon.com/downloads/ccgold_ogdoad_we.pdf

 

[steeldragons]

Honestly, I think both of these critters should be shelved until the 5E Manual of the Planes, when not-terribly-useful-at-the-average-gaming-table stuff can be introduced, and their spots in the Monster Manual should be made available for more readily used stuff.

I'm 100% behind this.

For an initial MM I would even say things like planatars and solars and 100 different demon lords and devil princes aren't necessary. Give me a few varying levels of demon (maybe 1 or 2 demon lords), similar for devils, the elementals, genies, and an archon or whatever would be the lowest rank of "angel"...any/all other extradimensional beings, especially "fringe/in between" creatures like modrons and slaadi, can wait for an MM 2 or preferably and specifically a MotP.

I've got a good 10+ levels of just mastering what's in "this" [Prime Material] world. Make the MotP, with all its own monsters and freaky environmental and magical alterations, for folks that want to play "Postcards from the Edge" at level 1.

 

[Weather Report]

No, they kind of do

No, they kind of don't, not everything in the D&D multiverse is something to be encountered (killed, etc), sometimes just knowing about it adds depth of immersion (Tolkien was great at this).

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

No, they kind of don't, not everything in the D&D multiverse is something to be encountered (killed, etc), sometimes just knowing about it adds depth of immersion (Tolkien was great at this).

These surveys seem to very much be about what's going to show up in Monster Manual #1. That book -- especially given how 5E is apparently a make-or-break moment for the brand -- needs to be 100 percent awesome "I must use this at my table NOW" content.

Peripheral world-building stuff belongs in later books.

 

[Dausuul]

Honestly, I think both of these critters should be shelved until the 5E Manual of the Planes, when not-terribly-useful-at-the-average-gaming-table stuff can be introduced, and their spots in the Monster Manual should be made available for more readily used stuff.

The one issue I have with this is that the slaad in particular pose a challenge to the current monster classification scheme. They are clearly not celestials or fiends. The case for making them aberrations is very weak. If the designers are forced to wrestle with the problem of classifying slaad now, it might lead them to rethink their (IMO very ill-thought-out) system. If they wait till the 5E MotP, the monster classification system will be established already, and they'll have to cram slaad in wherever they can fit.

 

[Klaus]

The one issue I have with this is that the slaad in particular pose a challenge to the current monster classification scheme. They are clearly not celestials or fiends. The case for making them aberrations is very weak. If the designers are forced to wrestle with the problem of classifying slaad now, it might lead them to rethink their (IMO very ill-thought-out) system. If they wait till the 5E MotP, the monster classification system will be established already, and they'll have to cram slaad in wherever they can fit.

Yeah, "celestials" and "fiends" are very much "good" and "evil" keywords. This is why I like 4e's shape-based nomenclature (even if DDN is refraining from using origins as keywords to avoid imposing world assumptions).

 

[RangerWickett]

I kinda don't care about modrons or slaad. I've never heard a story wherein they were a noteworthy element.

For chaos, having a realm of the capricious fey makes more sense than a realm of color-coded frogmen. For order, having a realm of dour 'celestial bureaucracy' -- or perhaps just tireless dwarf-like workers who toil in mines -- makes more sense than Platonic solids with legs.

I know they're (fringe) sacred cows of D&D, but tell me why I would want to use them.

 

[Klaus]

I kinda don't care about modrons or slaad. I've never heard a story wherein they were a noteworthy element.

For chaos, having a realm of the capricious fey makes more sense than a realm of color-coded frogmen. For order, having a realm of dour 'celestial bureaucracy' -- or perhaps just tireless dwarf-like workers who toil in mines -- makes more sense than Platonic solids with legs.

I know they're (fringe) sacred cows of D&D, but tell me why I would want to use them.

Modrons seem inextricably tied to Planescape's flavor.

Slaadi, OTOH, could be used as lesser spawn of the Ogdru-Jahad, the Dragon of Chaos (Lovecraftian Elder Beings from the Hellboy mythos, destined to unmake the world). In fact, the very first antagonists in the first Hellboy miniseries, Seed of Destruction, are frog-monsters.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Honestly, I think both of these critters should be shelved until the 5E Manual of the Planes, when not-terribly-useful-at-the-average-gaming-table stuff can be introduced, and their spots in the Monster Manual should be made available for more readily used stuff.

Honestly, not a horrid idea. As cool as some folks think they are, I don't think many would miss them from the first MM.

they need to have something to offer at the actual table where actual play is occurring

Regardless of their presence or absence in the first MM, they do. See my above post.

I know they're (fringe) sacred cows of D&D, but tell me why I would want to use them.

Man, some people just don't want to hear it. Not every monster needs to win over every hater. Haters gonna hate. Which is fine, I mean, it's possible to have critters in the MM that not everyone is going to use, I think. Or in the Manual of the Planes/Fiend Folio/Whatever.

The problem comes when people who aren't fans of the thing want the thing changed to appeal to them. Like it's somehow an affront to them to have a dozen pages in a monster book that they don't use. Like D&D doesn't already have more monsters than you could ever conceivably use.

 

[MarkB]

The one issue I have with this is that the slaad in particular pose a challenge to the current monster classification scheme. They are clearly not celestials or fiends. The case for making them aberrations is very weak. If the designers are forced to wrestle with the problem of classifying slaad now, it might lead them to rethink their (IMO very ill-thought-out) system. If they wait till the 5E MotP, the monster classification system will be established already, and they'll have to cram slaad in wherever they can fit.

Don't cram them in anywhere - or cram them into categories at random on an individual basis. They're exemplars of chaos - being unclassifiable should come with the territory.