D&D 5E Wandering Monsters: Morons and Salads

[Celebrim]

I kinda don't care about modrons or slaad. I've never heard a story wherein they were a noteworthy element.

I grant you that they aren't often treated well. However, the rogue modron party member in 'Planescape: Torment' was pretty cool.

For chaos, having a realm of the capricious fey makes more sense than a realm of color-coded frogmen.

These things don't have to be completely mutually exclusive.

For order, having a realm of dour 'celestial bureaucracy' -- or perhaps just tireless dwarf-like workers who toil in mines -- makes more sense than Platonic solids with legs.

And these things are definately not mutually exclusive.

I know they're (fringe) sacred cows of D&D, but tell me why I would want to use them.

Well, I have tried to do that. If I can't sell you on them, well I can't sell you on them.

Personally, I've always liked the vaguely frogish race of alien beings, first because I saw them as a really well designed foe and one of the few foes really capable of taking on a high level party, second because Ygorl and Ssendam were (aside from slightly corny names) really cool, and thirdly because I consider CN one of the consistantly worst done alignments in the game and I've endeavored to make it more interesting and more coherent than it usually is. I probably wouldn't have started with Slaad if I was working from scratch, but it was what we had. I don't necessarily consider them any worse of a starting point than any alternative that has been proposed, and they are certainly a more familiar one. If you've read the link in my sig, you can tell I'm retconning quite a bit that has been expanded on them officially by other people, and that I'm adapting them by way of elaboration into something closer to what I think they should have been from the beginning. Some 'problems' though with the Slaad are inherent to trying to record and systematize the 'monster' into a rules framework. Technically of course, it would be better if they were outside the rules, as any codification of them is 'wrong' for thier nature. But, as a practical matter it works better to codifiy them, and with that comes heirarchies and taxonomies and over simplification. I have some ideas for fixing that, but I don't mind that as a starting point.

Of course, I understand that they aren't everyone's cup of tea. Other things other people get really into, I don't have the slightest interest in nor do always see why they would.

And in any event, I would be quite happy to not include any outsiders in the 1st MM save for those few that get mentioned in the PH rules text (possible familiars, summonable creatures, etc.). The vast bulk of them can be in a Planar expansion. The entire planar cosmology is after all optional source material. There is no reason you have to assume any of it exists.

 

[Tovec]

On one hand I really dislike classifying Slaadi as Aberrations (with the far realms implications that the term now has). But on the other, I've never had reason (outside actually going to Limbo) to use them. Chaos should not be colour-coded IMHO. I think creatures of CN (called Slaadi) could be done better. And I would not classify them as Fiends nor as the current version of Aberrations. I think they fit into categorizations that are a little broader that we no longer seem to have, which is a shame as if the LN and CN outsiders no longer have a place I wonder which other creatures miss out.

Modrons I do see as constructs but their physical appearance will vary in my group and my friend's group depending on which visual look we prefer most, so I don't see the problem there. I have had the chance to use them, though I find that most of the time it is the rogue modron that sees the most play and it seems like there is the least information for them. I don't really like the description given, however, I find it to be more simplistic than any other outsider article I've read from them on 5e. Okay, they're ordered... and?? Modrons will continue to have uses in my games but ultimately if they cut them I will reskin Inevitables, and failing that, Golems or other constructs.

Either way I think there are places to keep both creatures but they need to put some thought into it and not just ask us what we want. Those of us who use/d planescape have that material still. What is 5e going to do differently or new?

 

[Zaukrie]

I too am ok if they are not in MM1.

 

[Stormonu]

Must they have a strictly defined "role" in terms of PC-centric use? I'm not sure that they need to in many styles of games. Things can fit a conceptual niche as part of the game universe without having to be there just to satisfy some interaction with the PCs.

But, having said that, encountering modrons in Mechanus and slaadi in limbo, in their respective native environments is one. Encountering either of them in neighboring planes, in planar trade cities, in ancillary roles in the Blood War, etc. Modrons could appear on the material plane to construct some alien, nigh incomprehensible structure and simply refuse to speak to the natives, or be unable to relate to them if it's largely a group of monodrones or duodrones, with the PCs having to determine if the modrons' efforts will cause harm to the area, or might ultimately be there to stave off a massive demonic invasion.

Slaadi on the other hand could appear on the material plane both to cause chaos for its own sake (which doesn't have to be destructive), or a single green or grey could be there for business of its own, seeking out an object. They don't have to be treated as slaadi, they can be like any other NPC with their own motivations and designs, albeit flavored by their status as exemplars of chaos. I tried to make this a little bit easier to work with in Pathfinder by having proteans be loosely organized in ever changing, ever shifting choruses that followed a specific mandate as determined by the priest-king keketars (such as the Chorus of Malignant Symmetry that acted to fight back against the Abyss which they view as a corruption of true Chaos, and which they themselves might have accidentally created or stumbled into and allowed into the universe). You could have lesser slaadi acting on the orders (when they saw fit to bother listening, and occasionally wandering off on their own exploits for the heck of it) of higher caste slaadi for similar things. I would also play up the notion of slaadi being not just about destruction, but about creation, artistry, and whimsy. Too often the slaadi have been portrayed as demons-lite, especially in 3e and 4e unless a specific author was playing back on their 2e development and going for a deeper exploration of them.

This is what I want - ideas and/or reasons why the heck they show up in the game. How can I use them? While slaad are pretty easy to inject into a game, having modrons show up as more than backdrop is something I've fought with ever since I saw these guys. I'm not against keeping the 1E or 2E lore, I just want information that prods me towards utilizing them - either as an individual encounter (such as rogue modrons) or as a group - modrons on the march or at work.

Now, with what Shemeska presents above, I want to build an adventure where suddenly modrons show up in the middle of country somewhere and start building some pyramid-like thing. They don't interact with the locals unless interfered with, but they're tearing up the local countryside for materials to build with. Just with that idea, I can go several ways to introducing the players - perhaps the local town wants the PCs to "dissuade" the modrons using the local stone buildings for material. Someone else might want the PCs to go find out what they're up to. Another person might want to open trade or seek compensation for materials taken. Mayhaps the modrons have taken some items of the value that the PCs might want - magic items being used to fuel some arcane power of the pyramid or a stockpile of gold they've reserved for the pyramid's outer casing. Maybe even the modrons have abducted individuals for unknown purposes and the PCs want/need/are paid to get them back. Suddenly, I've got a half dozen reasons to start the adventure and I haven't even gone into what the heck they're really doing!

Lastly, I'd also like to see an art update; the 1E art looks too primitive, and the 2E art now seems a bit cartoony. I've only seen one 4E image and I can't remember if I liked it; but I recall I did like the direction it was moving in.

 

[Thotas]

I've always hated the Modrons. Every one that's ever tried to convince me that they weren't lame just dug the hole deeper. Slaadi on the other hand, are awesome. Potentially as dangerous an opponent as a demon, but less predictable, to the point of them not necessarily being opponents. Even the word "slaad" is cool.

 

[RangerWickett]

Yeah, they're a little goofy looking:

I get the quirky appeal of them, and I love Planescape. I'm just not sure if they're fit for the core rules, which I would imagine are meant to appeal to a broad range of folks who like fantasy.

 

[Weather Report]

What about Rilmani, and what type would they be (Humanoid)?

 

[I'm A Banana]

I get the quirky appeal of them, and I love Planescape. I'm just not sure if they're fit for the core rules, which I would imagine are meant to appeal to a broad range of folks who like fantasy.

This seems to assume that "a broad range of folks who like fantasy" won't also like something with "quirky appeal." Which, y'know, Dragonlance (what with the kender and the tinker gnomes).

Lets not pretend that the only things in the first MM need to be all....

 

[Shemeska]

I get the quirky appeal of them, and I love Planescape. I'm just not sure if they're fit for the core rules, which I would imagine are meant to appeal to a broad range of folks who like fantasy.

If they go with nothing but bland and vanilla, assuming modrons and other sorts of things that have been part of D&D for around as long as I've been alive are too quirky, they're going to broadly appeal themselves all the way out of a viable market for 5e.

 

[RangerWickett]

Fair point.

Mostly, I just want more fey, so I'm biased.