Warforged: MM vs Dragon Magazine

[zerotkatama]

From the racial entry:
Effect: You gain a number of temporary hit points equal to 3 + one-half your level. You may make an immediate
saving throw against one effect that inflicts ongoing
damage and can be ended with a save. In addition,
if you are bloodied you regain hit points equal to 3 + one half your level.

One of the racial feats:
Benefit: Whenever you use your warforged resolve racial power, you can also make a free saving throw against one condition or ongoing damage effect affecting you.

So it looks like the "use while bloodied" boost is new, but the "free saving throw" boost is a copy-paste error.

Not necessarily. If you look closely at it, the initial ability gives you a save against a DoT effect, while the second one give you that + one against a condition or DoT effect, for a total of two (at least by my reading).


Secondly, I thought it was interesting how the feat-gained powers require you to swap them out for pre-existing powers. Wonder if they explore more of the races in-depth, this is how they'll give more powers?

Thirdly, did anyone see the sidebar noting that Warforged getting +2 to both Fort Stats as a balancing factor, and that they did that for the Eladrin as well (boosting the Reflex stats)? A nifty peek behind the scenes, and a factor I hadn't really considered.

 

[matthewseidl]

From the racial entry:
Effect: You gain a number of temporary hit points equal to 3 + one-half your level. You may make an immediate
saving throw against one effect that inflicts ongoing
damage and can be ended with a save. In addition,
if you are bloodied you regain hit points equal to 3 + one half your level.

One of the racial feats:
Benefit: Whenever you use your warforged resolve racial power, you can also make a free saving throw against one condition or ongoing damage effect affecting you.

So it looks like the "use while bloodied" boost is new, but the "free saving throw" boost is a copy-paste error.

Till we see a change, I'm reading that as you get a second free saving throw. Just like the wording of Component Modification doesn't say you get an extra 1 temp hit point per component. If you read that feat otherwise, you'd be getting 1 temp hit point per con mod fro mone source, and 3 + 1/2 level from another. And since temp hit pints don't stack, it would be mostly useless. So I take it as being an additional source of hit points, and thus an additional save.

But I do agree that its a strange wording, and I hope they fix either the power (to remove the save, which I think is the best answer), or the feat to say a second save.

 

[MindWanderer]

This is exactly what I was afraid of happening with DDI.

I agree as well. This is a throwback to 2nd edition, where buying splatbooks allowed you to add power to your characters without mechanical cost. It's like a CCG: spend the cash, get the rares.

I never really liked Dragon; the quality level was just too much lower than the books. But this kind of policy is just galling.

 

[Kordeth]

Meh, I'd bring back the innate armor bonus and the armor feats. The idea of a creature clad in steel plates needing to layer on more steel plates in order to protect itself is... well, the 4e designers mocked that very idea when they got rid of natural armor and regular armor stacking. Sure, you can't use armor that you found. But then you don't need it, either. You can disenchant it and use the arcane dust to enchant your own body, which is a hell of a lot more interesting.

Of course, the big problem with this is that it requires every warforged defender and probably leader to burn his first-level feat on whatever the equivalent of plate armor is--which isn't nearly as cool or fun as picking a neat weapon trick feat, or Power Attack, or something else that makes your character unique as opposed to something required to have any level of competence in your role at all. Besides, unless the DM is implementing the "no magic item resale" optional rule, disenchanting found armor to enchant yourself is hugely inefficient.

I can already see that I won't be picking up the 4e Darksun.

What the sweet fancy Moses does Dark Sun have to do with anything?

 

[matthewseidl]

Secondly, I thought it was interesting how the feat-gained powers require you to swap them out for pre-existing powers. Wonder if they explore more of the races in-depth, this is how they'll give more powers?

Its like the MC feats. The feat gives you the flexibility to take another power. Both of those powers are worth more than a feat I'd say.

Thirdly, did anyone see the sidebar noting that Warforged getting +2 to both Fort Stats as a balancing factor, and that they did that for the Eladrin as well (boosting the Reflex stats), as a balancing factor? A nifty peek behind the scenes, and a factor I hadn't really considered.

Yep, and its interesting that they did that specifically or balance. It does make the warforged somewhat weaker in some regards, although the new +1 to will defense helps that out. Still, I'm seriously thinking of dropping my current character for a fighter warforged.

 

[zerotkatama]

I agree as well. This is a throwback to 2nd edition, where buying splatbooks allowed you to add power to your characters without mechanical cost. It's like a CCG: spend the cash, get the rares.

I never really liked Dragon; the quality level was just too much lower than the books. But this kind of policy is just galling.

Would you really rather wait for the 4e ECS? We knew that the Monster PC stat writeups in the MM would be limited, and here we are getting the warforged expanded upon straight out the bat. I don't know what your stance on the warforged are, but (at this moment) free content is nothing to sneeze at, especially when it's gravy goodness.

 

[Rechan]

The DDI stuff is not "Here, pay more to get better crap". No, it's "Pay more, get crap early that's coming out later."

To put it another way, Wizards gets to use the same material twice - for their subscribers, and for people who buy dead tree editions. The former gets the privilege of early access.
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I don't really have a Problem with warforged putting on normal armor. I actually think it's kind've funny a warforged disliking the fact that his new armor doesn't match the color, texture or pattern of his plating. I agree that they could've included a mechanic that allowed you to "disenchant" magical armor and "Squirt" it into your innate plating, but eh.

Besides, it's better than wasting a feat to rid yourself of the WF armor bonus so you can play a wizard.

But I see the innate plating as kind've... well, a frame, with a sheet of tin or some other metal put over it. You hit it with a mace, it's going to crunch. It's not proper defense, it just keeps the crap in. After all, a car hood is "armor" for the motor, but you wouldn't want to take a sledgehammer to it right?

I thought the feats were "Meh", but the WF Juggernaut is nice. Embedded components are cool. Predator Shoulderbow FTW.

 

[Sashi]

The idea of a creature clad in steel plates needing to layer on more steel plates in order to protect itself is... well

Balanced with the rules system? Easy to adjudicate?

Are you going to let Warforged use a feat to get Godplate at first level?
What happens when a Warforged with the SkinPlate feat reaches 16th level?
Does it transform into SkinWarplate?
Can you retrain the feat? What happens then?
Do warforged pupate, is that their big secret?
Do you remember that using the disenchant/re-enchant ritual lowers the level of the item by 5?
If disenchant/re-enchant works differently for warforged how will the explanation for why this happens be any less ridiculous?
Balance isn't exactly easy to achieve.
How is it possible to be more balanced than "Nothing is different"?

Warforged were created to be soldiers, does it stand that the best soldier would be one who is immutably connected to his equipment? Is it better, logistically, if you can strip a suit of armor off a dead soldier and give it to a new one, or if you have to hack the dead soldier to pieces, melt the armor down, and re-forge it? Because I'd say the former.

I never liked how broken it was that a first level warforged could get superawesomeadamantineplate at first level (Seriously, I'd pay a feat just to get a 10k item at first level, much less an item similar but demonstrably better in every way than the actual 10k item). If the plate is completely normal, then you're saying warforged have to spend a feat to get something they should have anyway. If it's superior, then it's functionally identical to just giving a warforged a +1 to AC feat. You're not gaining anything except a headache.

Flavor wise, The warforged can attach their armor to themselves, meaning that when a warforged puts on a suit of attachable leather armor it essentially becomes their skin. You've still got warforged running around naked, it's just easier for the Colonels to keep their men (both warforged and non) equipped because you only have to make one kind of armor (attachable armor can by warforged and nonwarforged alike). If you think that the supersecretletsmaketheultimatewarrior project won't consult with Colonels about what's actually good for the army, and that one of those colonels won't make this point, you're ... well

The way it works in the new edition is a good thing. Don't mess it up.

 

[MrMyth]

From the racial entry:
Effect: You gain a number of temporary hit points equal to 3 + one-half your level. You may make an immediate
saving throw against one effect that inflicts ongoing
damage and can be ended with a save. In addition,
if you are bloodied you regain hit points equal to 3 + one half your level.

One of the racial feats:
Benefit: Whenever you use your warforged resolve racial power, you can also make a free saving throw against one condition or ongoing damage effect affecting you.

So it looks like the "use while bloodied" boost is new, but the "free saving throw" boost is a copy-paste error.

Note those are different effects - the base ability allows you to save against a single effect that inflicts ongoing damage. With the feat, you get a second free save, against an effect that inflicts ongoing damage or inflicts a condition - a significantly more powerful ability!

 

[JDillard]

I agree as well. This is a throwback to 2nd edition, where buying splatbooks allowed you to add power to your characters without mechanical cost. It's like a CCG: spend the cash, get the rares.

I never really liked Dragon; the quality level was just too much lower than the books. But this kind of policy is just galling.

As Rechan mentioned above, I think this is a case of getting stuff beforehand, rather than "in addition to".

I expect we'll likely see this same warforged write up in the Eberron Campaign book. On the same note, the Drow entry that's almost assuredly in the Forgotten Realms book will probably look a bit different from the MM version as well, and any other races that eventually come out in other books (PHB 2, other campaign settings, etc)

The races at the end of the MM were a way for the designers to get out a whole handful of other races quickly, without having to go the full process of coming up with a fair selection of racial feats and whatnot. That way, Eberron games can keep going without DM's having to write up their own Warforged or Shifter, Forgotten Realms games keep their Drow, and people can play something that's not a core race (they just have to accept the penalty of no racial feats and such yet)