D&D 5E Warlock, Hex, and Short Rests: The Bag of Rats Problem

[Yunru]

cf.



Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.

But some arguments are really, really funny.

"The sky is blue."
"You are wrong. The sky is blue!"

You're wrong! The sea is blue!

[emoji14]

 

[Ganymede81]

With everything written as it is you can. Concentration is not stated to be strenuous to any degree, not even in flavour text.

This line of argument fails because it applies equally to the converse position.

You're saying, "RAW says that concentration is less or equally strenuous to "eating, reading, etc." because there's no rule that says otherwise."

Someone else could say, "RAW says that concentration is more strenuous than "eating, reading, etc." because there's no rule that says otherwise."

Both statements have equal weight, and they are both equally useless.

 

[zaratan]

This is factually inaccurate. As already pointed out in the first page, you can only benefit from a short rest if you do nothing more strenuous than "eating, drinking, reading, or tending to wounds." Furthermore, there is nothing in the rules that actually explains whether concentrating on a spell is more strenuous than those tasks. A DM is free to draw inferences from rules to create a ruling that works for his or her table, but to say that there is a RAW answer one way or the other is simply incorrect.

Exactly, there isn't any part that say concentration is streneous at all. Apparently is so streneous that you can do this while you fight, walk a tightrope or climbing without any penalty. I bet eating, drinking, reading, or tending to wounds at the same time that you fight or do juggling with torches would increase the difficult somehow.

 

[Yunru]

This line of argument fails because it applies equally to the converse position.

You're saying, "RAW says that concentration is less or equally strenuous to a short rest because there's no rule that says otherwise."

Someone else could say, "RAW says that concentration is more strenuous than a short rest because there's no rule that says otherwise."

Both statements have equal weight, and they are both equally useless.

No it doesn't because of DnD's nature as a permissive structure. If it were a restrictive (man I hope I got these the right way round) game like chess, then I'd be wrong.

Your qualifiers are also wrong. I'm not saying it's less strenuous, I'm saying it's not stated as more. Also due to the way things work, applying it to the converse is nonsensical. Exceptions are called out, not the norm. Strenuous activity are the exceptions to normal activity, therefore the absence of it being called out as strenuous implicitly implies that it is nonstrenuous.

 

[Ganymede81]

Exactly, there isn't any part that say concentration is streneous at all. Apparently is so streneous that you can do this while you fight, walk a tightrope or climbing without any penalty. I bet eating, drinking, reading, or tending to wounds at the same time that you fight or do juggling with torches would increase the difficult somehow.

You just made a DM ruling or judgment call based on inferences you drew from several related rules. That's perfectly fine.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Ganymede81]

No it doesn't because of DnD's nature as a permissive structure. If it were a restrictive (man I hope I got these the right way round) game like chess, then I'd be wrong.

You are making a mistake of assuming that this is an example of a "permissive structure" issue. This is not an issue between whether the rules affirmatively forbid an action or the rules' silence is a tacit permission for that action.

In this issue, the answer lies in two discrete categories "Concentration is more strenuous than a short rest allows" and "concentration is less or as strenuous as a short rest allows." These two choices do not line up with "Active forbiddance" and "tacit permission," because they are both affirmative, concrete claims.

Your qualifiers are also wrong. I'm not saying it's less strenuous, I'm saying it's not stated as more. Also due to the way things work, applying it to the converse is nonsensical. Exceptions are called out, not the norm. Strenuous activity are the exceptions to normal activity, therefore the absence of it being called out as strenuous implicitly implies that it is nonstrenuous.

By using the words "implicitly implies," you are openly admitting that you're making a ruling or judgment call. That is fine and all, but let's not pretend that's RAW.

 

[Ganymede81]

As "strenuous activity" is not a game mechanic - there are not levels of exhaustion for it, there is no mapping for it, there's nothing ... we simply have to decide what is, and isn't, a strenuous activity. Doing laps in the lake? What about floating on your back? Jumping jacks? Is playing medieval soccer a strenuous, or a relaxing, activity? Since this doesn't fit into the game mechanics, it's really just a judgment call, especially since "short rest," is really supposed to just be, "We take a short rest," type of thing. Probably doesn't include "strenuous" activities like ... shopping in town? Or does it?

I think this is an interesting point, as when you divorce the rule question from the baggage-laden warlock situation, it becomes clearer.

I have a character that likes to do yoga-style stretches and occasional push ups during her short breaks. The rules do not indicate whether this activity is more or less strenuous than a short rest allows, so it is up to the DM to decide. That is not controversial in the least.

Add warlocks into the equation and suddenly it becomes Star Trek vs. Star Wars.

 

[Yunru]

By using the words "implicitly implies," you are openly admitting that you're making a ruling or judgment call. That is fine and all, but let's not pretend that's RAW.

No, by using the word "implicity" I mean just that. It's inherent to the wordage. That means it's not a judgement call, it is RAW for their use of those words.

 

[Lidgar]

I have no idea what this thread is about.

Why on earth would someone want to carry around a bag of rats so they could sacrifice one every day? And how does that relate to the debate of a Hex spell lasting through a short rest?

It's like I stumbled into some strange parallel universe where people are debating the rules of Mazes and Mice.

Never mind, I don't want to know. Instead, I will offer that surely a bag of space hamsters would be much more efficient. Smaller, and better temperament.