D&D (2024) We don't talk about Barbie

[billd91]

If Margot Robbie is playing the barbarian, I'll show up at the table.

 

[OldSchoolGamerGirl]

I think Barbie is more popular than D&D.

I came here expecting an entire thread about how us women start our fantasy roleplay experience making elaborate back stories for then brutally torturing our barbies.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I came here expecting an entire thread about how us women start our fantasy roleplay experience making elaborate back stories for then brutally torturing our barbies.

Feel free to get the thread started! I'll read it! My G.I. Joes went through some bad times themselves.

 

[Scott Christian]

They wouldn't be good at everything.

Barbarians would have a role in every pillar and every tier of play.

It's basically a shift from Old School Style Balance where you are amazing at everything in one scene and useless the next to New School Style Balance where you are useful in every scene but not access to every role

I have to disagree. Look at what you wanted fixed:

1. Barbarian's ranged attack was bad with little tradeoff for it
2. Barbarian's out of combat features were near nonexistent
3. Barbarian's high level features were bad
4. Barbarian' core subclass didn't work right

So barbarian needs both melee and ranged. Barbarian needs out of combat features, which I can only assume you mean exploration and roleplay pillars. Yet, I fail to see how they don't already have these two things. You want stronger high level features, and you want a subclass that works right (which again really just means stronger).

 

[Minigiant]

I have to disagree. Look at what you wanted fixed:

So barbarian needs both melee and ranged. Barbarian needs out of combat features, which I can only assume you mean exploration and roleplay pillars. Yet, I fail to see how they don't already have these two things. You want stronger high level features, and you want a subclass that works right (which again really just means stronger).

Barbarians don't have healing nor control in combat.

And Primal Knowledge only applies to 5 skills. And only swaps a score.

So Barbarians still have plenty of holes. And they are only powerful at damage and tanking.. They just aren't useless in 2 of the 3 pillars anymore.

 

[Scott Christian]

Barbarians don't have healing nor control in combat.

Barbarians rage and take half damage from a whole lot of things. That is very related to healing. Control is a myth that people like to dream about. The DM "controls" the opponents, the opponents attack who or what the DM says they do.

And Primal Knowledge only applies to 5 skills. And only swaps a score.

So again, 5 skills aren't enough?

So Barbarians still have plenty of holes. And they are only powerful at damage and tanking.. They just aren't useless in 2 of the 3 pillars anymore.

Could you clarify with examples where you think the barbarian is useless in these pillars? I ask, one to make sure I understand. But also, two, to make sure this can't be applied to all classes.

 

[Weiley31]

I think Barbie is more popular than D&D.

And here I thought the thread was going to be about the new movie.
View attachment 283068

 

[Minigiant]

Barbarians rage and take half damage from a whole lot of things. That is very related to healing. Control is a myth that people like to dream about. The DM "controls" the opponents, the opponents attack who or what the DM says they do.

Tanking is not healing.

A barbarian has no natural way from class to restore HP or remove negative conditions from others.

Their ability to place conditions on others is also limited.

So again, 5 skills aren't enough?

You said Primal Knowledge fulfills a fantasy that some have to play supermen.

Primal Knowledge just swaps your scores of skill checks. This make barbarians good secondary options or a primary option if the time arises.

Could you clarify with examples where you think the barbarian is useless in these pillars? I ask, one to make sure I understand. But also, two, to make sure this can't be applied to all classes

Precious a Barbarian could not afford decent mental scores as their STR, DEX, and Con were primary, secondary, and tertiary. A barbarian with good INT or CHA would see heavy combat look for only moderately better out combat.

This means the barbarian tended to be useless dealing with noncombat challenges that could not be solving with weapon damage or athleticism. Especially difficult or combat ones.

 

[Scott Christian]

Tanking is not healing.

A barbarian has no natural way from class to restore HP or remove negative conditions from others.

Their ability to place conditions on others is also limited.



You said Primal Knowledge fulfills a fantasy that some have to play supermen.

Primal Knowledge just swaps your scores of skill checks. This make barbarians good secondary options or a primary option if the time arises.



Precious a Barbarian could not afford decent mental scores as their STR, DEX, and Con were primary, secondary, and tertiary. A barbarian with good INT or CHA would see heavy combat look for only moderately better out combat.

This means the barbarian tended to be useless dealing with noncombat challenges that could not be solving with weapon damage or athleticism. Especially difficult or combat ones.

Again, how is a barbarian useless out of combat? They are no more useless than any other character. They shine when lifting gates, breaking open doors, climbing cliffs, etc. They don't shine when looking at arcane symbols or investigating a room. Who cares? Why not allow the character that is good at those things to do them instead of: "Look, my barbarian can lift this gate and scan the room and read arcane symbols." This is why there are classes - strengths and weaknesses.
Not to mention, the crazy statistical swing of the dice makes for a lot of this moot.
But again, it boils down to the DM. It is a myth your barbarian can't do social roleplay or exploration. That is all up to the DM.

 

[Minigiant]

Again, how is a barbarian useless out of combat? They are no more useless than any other character. They shine when lifting gates, breaking open doors, climbing cliffs, etc. They don't shine when looking at arcane symbols or investigating a room. Who cares? Why not allow the character that is good at those things to do them instead of: "Look, my barbarian can lift this gate and scan the room and read arcane symbols." This is why there are classes - strengths and weaknesses.
Not to mention, the crazy statistical swing of the dice makes for a lot of this moot.
But again, it boils down to the DM. It is a myth your barbarian can't do social roleplay or exploration. That is all up to the DM.

That's why I stated its basically a shift from Old School Style Balance to Middle School Balance to New School Style Balance.

As D&D shifted to have a lower percentage of pure dungeon crawling, the popularity of NSB has grown over OSB or MSB.

D&D today can have multiple sessions outside the dungeon with little to no combat with no gates to lift nor doors to break. Therefore the balance systems have to match how the game is played.

would not recommend NSB for an OSR game for example.