Weapon Finesse & Power attack with unarmed attack?

[mostholy2]

I was reading through the PHB and realized that when using an unarmed attack it is possible to use both Weapon Finesse (because unarmed attacks are considered light weapons) and Power Attack (because unarmed attacks are exempt from the light weapon disqualification).

Is this true? Can you actually use power attack and weapon finesse when using an unarmed attack? It's sort of a weird combination, but potentially useful for really high dex monks.

Weapon finesse: "Natural weapons are always considered light weapons."

Power Attack: "You can't add the bonus from Power Attack to the damage dealt with a light weapon (except with unarmed strikes or natural weapon attacks), even though the penalty on attack rolls still applies."

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

It's true.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Is this true? Can you actually use power attack and weapon finesse when using an unarmed attack?

Just like you can with a Spiked Chain. There's nothing stopping you.

-Hyp.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

You can do it with a rapier also I think.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Also a rapier, yes.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Also a rapier, yes.

Of course, as soon as you bring up rapier and Power Attack, you open up the "What about two-handed?" question

-Hyp.

 

[ARandomGod]

Of course, as soon as you bring up rapier and Power Attack, you open up the "What about two-handed?" question

-Hyp.

OK, I'll bite.

What about using the rapier two handed?

(Runs away to watch the chaos from afar)

 

[shilsen]

OK, I'll bite.

What about using the rapier two handed?

(Runs away to watch the chaos from afar)

*walks in muttering*

It's quite simple, really. The rapier description says you can't use it two-handed to get 1.5x your Str bonus to damage. But it doesn't say you won't get the PA 2 for 1 bonus to damage if you do use it two-handed. Some people argue that since the qualification isn't there, it can be used two-handed and benefit accordingly from PA. Others say that the "no 1.5x Str dmg" indicates that it won't work two-handed with PA either. Just a question where there's area for disagreement. No reason for excitement.

*looks around*

*"Ah - who am I kidding?" Throws oil on flames and walks away*

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

It's quite simple, really. The rapier description says you can't use it two-handed to get 1.5x your Str bonus to damage.

It's even better than that ...

You can’t wield a rapier in two hands in order to apply 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus to damage.

Note that it says you can't wield a rapier in two hands in order to accomplish something.

By extension, you can wield a rapier in two hands to accomplish something else.

So, I can't wield a rapier in two hands if I'm doing it to get 1.5x Strength bonus to damage.

However, if I'm doing it for the purpose of looking cool, I can wield in in two hands - and, by extension, gain the 1.5x Strength damage.

 

[ARandomGod]

...
However, if I'm doing it for the purpose of looking cool, I can wield in in two hands - and, by extension, gain the 1.5x Strength damage.

Ex Cell Ent

As long as you're accidentially getting the bonus, all is fine. RAW at it's finest.

Have I told you about how Chaotic characters can get the benifits of Precise Shot without wasting a feat on it?

Shooting or Throwing into a Melee: If you shoot or throw a ranged weapon at a target engaged in melee with a friendly character, you take a –4 penalty on your attack roll. Two characters are engaged in melee if they are enemies of each other and either threatens the other. (An unconscious or otherwise immobilized character is not considered engaged unless he is actually being attacked.)

Emphasis mine...

Not that the penalty is only if you attack someone who's engaged in combat with a friendly character. If you're chaotic you can announce that you don't consider anyone out there friendly, and then attack with impunity. Later you can declare some or all of the remaining combatants as 'friendly'. Note that as a chaotic character this doesn't have to be the same people whom you were friendly with earlier that day...