Weapon Finesse

[Hypersmurf]

The feat mention if you're using light weapons, not "fighting/attacking as if you're using a light weapon." Physically, the quartertaff is a two-handed weapon. It just so happen to have an extra feature, the same way certain polearms have an extra feature (does double damage when set against a charge).

The text of the Power Attack feat states "Normally, you treat a double weapon as a one-handed weapon and a light weapon. If you choose to use a double weapon like a two-handed weapon, attacking with only one end of it in a round, you treat it as a two-handed weapon."

So it's not just for TWF penalties that the off-end of a quarterstaff is treated as a light weapon; it's 'normally' treated as a light weapon.

Unless you're using it as a two-handed weapon, it's treated as a light weapon, and thus can be finessed.

-Hyp.

 

[Calico_Jack73]

Stricktly speaking from the rules if the off hand end of the quarterstaff is considered "light' then yeah, Weapon Finesse should work. Then again I consider Weapon Finesse on a case by case basis in my games. In most martial arts movies that I have watched the use of a Quarterstaff involved more speed and precise handling rather than brute strength so I'd allow it for both ends. But that is just me.

 

[Ranger REG]

The text of the Power Attack feat states "Normally, you treat a double weapon as a one-handed weapon and a light weapon. If you choose to use a double weapon like a two-handed weapon, attacking with only one end of it in a round, you treat it as a two-handed weapon."

So it's not just for TWF penalties that the off-end of a quarterstaff is treated as a light weapon; it's 'normally' treated as a light weapon.

Unless you're using it as a two-handed weapon, it's treated as a light weapon, and thus can be finessed.

I disagree. The text is with regards to Power Attack's application when using a double weapon. The feat you mentioned does not redefine what is already stated in the two-weapon fighting rule (see Combat Rules chapter/sections) regarding double weapon, nor the double weapon's description in the Equipment chapter.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I disagree. The text is with regards to Power Attack's application when using a double weapon. The feat you mentioned does not redefine what is already stated in the two-weapon fighting rule (see Combat Rules chapter/sections) regarding double weapon, nor the double weapon's description in the Equipment chapter.

It doesn't contradict those.

The TWF and Double Weapon descriptions state that it's treated as a one-handed and light weapon for purposes of TWF penalties. The Power Attack description states that it's considered a one-handed weapon and a light weapon.

The two (or three) are not contradictory; one simply gives more information than the others.

See 3E PHB, p100: Crossbow, Heavy.

-Hyp.

 

[Ranger REG]

It doesn't contradict those.

The TWF and Double Weapon descriptions state that it's treated as a one-handed and light weapon for purposes of TWF penalties. The Power Attack description states that it's considered a one-handed weapon and a light weapon.

The two (or three) are not contradictory; one simply gives more information than the others.

But what you suggest is that by the wording of Power Attack, the off-hand end of a double weapon is physically a light weapon. You can't look at a weapon by its portion but by its whole.

 

[Hypersmurf]

But what you suggest is that by the wording of Power Attack, the off-hand end of a double weapon is physically a light weapon.

Not at all. It's considered a light weapon, and treated as one for purposes of effects that depends on such.

Like Weapon Finesse.

-Hyp.

 

[Ranger REG]

Not at all. It's considered a light weapon, and treated as one for purposes of effects that depends on such.

I disagree. That "off-hand end" of a double weapon is treated as a light weapon for the sole purpose of two-weapon fighting. It has no other blanket application.

Like Weapon Finesse.

Looking at the text of the feat, it states "With a light weapon..." A light weapon is defined as "a weapon that can be wielded in one hand and can be used in grappling." A double weapon is a two-handed weapon and cannot be used in one hand nor can it be used in grappling

 

[Hypersmurf]

I disagree. That "off-hand end" of a double weapon is treated as a light weapon for the sole purpose of two-weapon fighting. It has no other blanket application.

Not according to the Power Attack feat.

A double weapon is a two-handed weapon and cannot be used in one hand nor can it be used in grappling

A double weapon is a two-handed weapon. When both ends are used, it is considered a one-handed weapon and a light weapon.

Since you cannot attack with two weapons in a grapple, you can never use both ends, and therefore you can't treat one end as light.

Nevertheless, if you can use both ends, one is considered a light weapon, and can therefore be finessed.

The 3E Main FAQ even did include a blanket statement for you:

"Using both ends of a double weapon works exactly like fighting with a one-handed weapon in your primary hand and a light weapon in your off hand." (Emphasis not mine - it's italicised in the FAQ.)

-Hyp.

 

[Drakh]

WEAPON FINESSE
Benefit: With a light weapon, rapier, whip, or spiked chain made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your strength modifier on attack rolls.

Benefit: With a light weapon, rapier (a one handed weapon), whip (a one handed weapon), or spiked chain (a double weapon)

So from this sentance i can 100% agree that Ranger REG and UltimaGabe are correct.

If the light weapon end of any double weapon was usable with weapon finesse the sentance would read as follows...

Benefit: With a light weapon, rapier, whip, or the offhand attack of a double weapon made for a creature of your size category,

 

[Black Knight Irios]

Have you ever thought, that not every possibility is listed. I'm pretty sure I could find other rulings where not all possibilities are listed and you can tell wether that rule applies or not.
I agree with Hyp on this one.

You treat it as a light weapon for two-weapon fighting only? -Then he gets a bonus on damage rolls with the off-hand (light) part of a doubleweapon when he uses power attack. Sounds a bit odd. If he can finesse that part he couldn't use power attack with it, sound perfectly fine with me. But a weapon part that is light and still is not light, very odd I think.

or spiked chain (a double weapon)

A spiked chain is a two-handed weapon.