Weapons you wished you'd see sometimes.

[Nlogue]

I've always seen the rapier/broadsword comparison as comparing apples and oranges. The adoption of the rapier wasn't an island - it also had to do with the general abandoning of armour due to the development of firearms, and has to be seen in that context.

In essence, you've got a couple of 'packages' happening historically. First you have the relatively unarmoured rapier-wielder with a pistol on his belt and perhaps a main-gauche or dagger in his off hand. This is a great package for duelling one-on-one or in small groups. But it's a bit of a liability in the crush of close combat, in a mass battle, or in a siege situation, when you're likely to have all sorts of random attacks coming at you from random directions, and you won't be able to parry (or indeed see) them all. In that case, armour will save your butt. And again, in a close chaotic crush, you won't often have time to line up your rapier with a weak point in your enemy's armour, and simply bashing away with a warhammer or similar may well be a better solution. To say nothing about how easily a rapier could get broken in a protracted battle, especially if there's shields and armour involved. Here's where the heavy-armour-and-big-choppy-thing package comes into its own.

It's worth noting that as dangerous as the rapier is in a duelling situation, it was never adopted in a military context, even though melee weapons such as pikes, halberds, cavalry sabres and even zweihanders (in certain cases) remained in military use for a long time after the advent of black powder. Weapons are situational.

And of course that's before bringing a fantasy aspect in to it. However lethal a rapier is to an unprotected human, it's hard to see it bothering an ooze much. Or a zombie. And while a couple of inches of penetration in the right spot will kill a human, that sort of thing'd be much harder to pull off whe you're fighting a frost giant, or a purple worm...

Some great points!

I would also argue that another reason the rapier was not adopted for widespread military use is the amount of training required to use it effectively...it was definately an upper class weapon, for those who had the spare time to invest in its study. Any meathead can swing a broadsword at someone, but to dispatch a foe with an elegant lunge takes a bit of training first.

I totally agree with your battlefield analogy. Frontline fighting is all about hacking with big'ole pieces of steel. If you stab someone with a rapier on the front line your blade is occupied in ribs for at least a bit and that may cost you your life, and you can't clear space with a rapier the way you can with a halberd.

Your point on armor for the battlefield is well put too. I totally agree, the rapier is a duelist's weapon, a bravo's weapon, not for the meat and crunch of all out war.

This why I get annoyed in D&D by all the people wearing armor around town in peacetime, or worse, while traveling overland on a quest. It just doesn't make good sense and would be really really cumbersome. I hate when I have to wear armor on stage for a couple hours, much less all day in the sun.

Your fantasy example can refute itself you realize. The same world that has purple worms also has powerful magic to imbue a rapier with, which makes it a might more useful than your average pin-prick bit o' steel. But ultimately you're right, if your enemy is that big, you'd rather have a greataxe or broadsword in hand to inflict maximum tissue damage.

Mainly, I was only arguing that a rapier is quite lethal against a human, armored or otherwise, and by no means is a step down from the broadsword. Apples and oranges is totally the way to do it. That's what makes fantasy fun! It's funny cause my training and occupation speak to the smallsword and rapier as real killer's weapons, but in D&D all I really want to do is swing a greatsword at someone!!!

 

[Moon-Lancer]

ooz and undead are immune to crits. The idea is that the crit is a strike to the heart or something similar. Also why maces are bludgeoning and undead normally don't have damage reduction to that.

 

[Jdvn1]

My first character wielded an Orc Double-Axe (I loved that dude... tons of attacks!). I think I've only used a longsword when it was my deity's favored weapon.

 

[the Jester]

We have a lot of variety- our groups include or have included folk who wield greatswords, greataxes, longspears, crossbows, bows, slings, bastard swords, whips, battle axes, rapiers, heavy maces, morning stars, the spiked chain (only once!), falchions, scimitars, daggers, greatclubs and more. Some of the weirder ones haven't gotten any love though- I don't recall having anyone with a scythe, pick or double-bladed sword, for instance.

 

[nute]

I have always been a fan of spears, and will definitely be adopting the "spears are finesseable" idea for my campaign.

Fun weapons used in games I've played:
*half-fire elemental fighter/sorceror wielding a dire flail named "Accident". ("What happened to him?" "He met with an unfortunate Accident.")
*rogue/cleric of the nature god dual-wielding shortswords designed like meat cleavers
*monk wielding a rope-dart (treated as a whip that could be used for trip and disarm attacks, but a max of 1 attack per round)
*dual-wielding two clubs like escrima sticks
*the fighter who carried FOUR katanas, each with a different 'flavor' (cold iron, silver, holy and +2 flaming)

What I'd love to see used:
*morningstars
*polearms
*SHIELDS! My players never use them!
*spiked gauntlet
*sling

 

[Set]

I love the idea, as unrealistic and useless as it would be, of dual-wielding shields.

Throw some shield spikes on those puppies (or blades on the edges).

Make up some sort of special feat to be able to use them both, some other feat to be able to bash with them and then ready then as a free action to regain use of the AC bonus.

Add a suit of heavy spiked armor, spiked gauntlets, spiked boot-blades and perhaps some spiked wine to drink. Sort of like an anthropomorphic porcupine with the Dwarven Defender PrC...

 

[Herobizkit]

One of the biggest turn-offs of using non-standard weapons is being unable to find a magical version of your weapon of choice. I had a character with a double-sword and, from level 1 to level 17, only ever found a +1 two-bladed sword... and a slew of magical longswords, two-handed swords, maces, and even a few morning stars. This becomes especially apparent when your campaign is largely module-based.

Still, I've become partial to the falchion, and I plan on making a spear-wielder sometime in the future.

 

[RFisher]

*rogue/cleric of the nature god dual-wielding shortswords designed like meat cleavers

At first glance I read, "...god of dual-wielding..." Now that's something every D&D pantheon needs!

I had a character with a double-sword and, from level 1 to level 17, only ever found a +1 two-bladed sword...

When playing a PC like this, if the DM doesn't think of it, drop subtle hints about questing for the legendary double-bladed sword of whatshisname.

 

[green slime]

Another vote for Spears.

 

[Nyeshet]

Spiked Chain - origins?

This is just a little question, but where did the spiked chain come from? There is no historical equivalent, I can't recall any movies off hand that used it (as it cannot be realistically wielded), nor any fantasy books that used it either. Did it exist in 2e and was carried over for sentimental reasons?