WH40K Wrath & Glory Is Here!

As of right now, you can pick up the Warhammer 40K: Wrath & Glory core rulebook PDF from Cubicle 7 if you pre-order the hardcover (which is expected to ship this Autumn).

UPDATE -- you can also pick up the PDF on DriveThruRPG, and if you previously purchased the Ulisses version of the book, it will be automatically updated for you for free there.

 

[Mournblade94]

Rather than being hard I simply think a lot of people don't want to bother with learning a new system. There are plenty of people who simply aren't interested in playing something other than the one game they like.

I'm a very experienced gamer. If its not the systems I have been playing a version of for the past 20 years I don't even pay attention to it. Its a non starter for me. I'm willing to try the Fantasy Flight Star Wars. But given a new RPG to play sci fi? How could it do better than Traveller, Alternity, or HERO? I would DEFINITELY pick up the 40K as a book though and give it a go because I like the universe.

I plan to pick up Dune. I'll learn new systems if they work well for established IP. I just won't pick up a Powered by the Apocalypse of something because there are already games that do those Genres that I know already.

 

[Mournblade94]

I feel your pain. My GM Screen for Warhammer Fantasy Role Play 4th Editoin which I pre-ordered since last year since November, has yet to surface.

But a collectors edition of "The Enemy WIthin"? Those were some big bucks, way above my pay grade.

I ordered those through my game store. Not all of them by any means. I planned to do it piecemeal but now I doubt if we'll even get the PDF's completed.

 

[aramis erak]

Plus the Free League OGL rules are awesome. The appearance of non-d20 OGL systems has really changed the design part of the hobby a lot. Now you can use PbtA, FitD, FL or a whatever to build 'your game' and legally sell it there's less need to build systems from the ground up. I think we've gotten a lot of very good games because of this. I do think it's useful to be able to keep the engine but switch genres to mix things up for a group.

It's also important to note that, unlike Chaosium, Free League included the key genre mechanics in their SRD.

 

[aramis erak]

There are a lot of harsh feeling here for people being "wussy" about learning new rules.

Here's a truth: how often do players do something new/different WITHIN a ruleset (barbarian/barbarian/two-handed barbarian/two-handed fighter)? Most people like familiarity.

I've found that linked quite highly with deterministic charcater gen.

Random gen has the advantage of strongly encouraging diverse characters.

It doesn't matter how much we love Warhammer, or Star Trek, or Numenera, or Tiny Cthulhu D6 or... Unless we have 3-5 players who agree, we don't have a game to play.

Far too true. Including the occasional "Who's Up for a Trek campaign?" many hands go up... "In the DS9 era" half the hands drop, and two ask if it's dominion war or not, and either way, one more drops...

 

[DWChancellor]

You are projecting into the conversation a tone and words that no one intoned.

Simply calling out the myth of "learning to play a new RPG is hard." for what it is.

A Myth.

You're probably right that I'm off on the tone. But I can't agree with you that learning new rulesets being "hard" is a "myth." Maybe learning new rules is easy for you. Maybe it is easier for people who comment on Enworld in general.

Out in the "world" I find it is pulling teeth to get people to learn anything that isn't spoon fed (let alone retain it). I've played D&D with people for years who have not and will not pick up a rulebook. Ever. If you want to split "unwilling to try" from "couldn't do it if forced to," then fine. But for me that is a distinction without a difference.

This impacts other rulesets because the onus is usually 100% on the DM to learn the rules and handhold/bully their players over (and as usual spend most of the money). This is why, if you're lucky, you can leverage other interests to get a few people to at least try something like WH40K or ST.

 

[aramis erak]

You're probably right that I'm off on the tone. But I can't agree with you that learning new rulesets being "hard" is a "myth." Maybe learning new rules is easy for you. Maybe it is easier for people who comment on Enworld in general.

I agree that it's not easy to learn truly new systems, and my learning of Pugmire was aided by familiarity with D&D 5...

On the other hand, learning AD&D 2 was much harder than learning Traveller for me... it was too similar to AD&D 1, and many things had changed just a little....

Many elements combine to make systems hard to learn...
Quality of the writing
Number of resolution methods
Number of exceptions to the resolution methods
Overall detail of the rules
Incongruity of rules with setting
Number of similar systems one knows (confusion factor)

 

[Jaeger]

Despite the ubiquity with which people ask, finding a D&D style game with low magic is surprisingly difficult. I think the simplest reason is that D&D is fundamentally a game about advancement; without magic to explain how the characters progress, there's a pretty big hole for the system to fill and imperfect rationales as to how to do it.

I completely disagree with this. Tons of systems that have character advancement that don't need magic to explain it.

I'm a very experienced gamer. If its not the systems I have been playing a version of for the past 20 years I don't even pay attention to it. Its a non starter for me. I'm willing to try the Fantasy Flight Star Wars. But given a new RPG to play sci fi? How could it do better than Traveller, Alternity, or HERO? ...

When It comes to game system preferences you and I have a big disconnect here.

IMHO I can walk into any RPG gaming store, throw a rock over my shoulder and hit a random RPG that will have a better system than Traveller, Alternity, and especially HERO ~shudder~.

Just goes to show that tastes vary!

You're probably right that I'm off on the tone. But I can't agree with you that learning new rulesets being "hard" is a "myth." Maybe learning new rules is easy for you. Maybe it is easier for people who comment on Enworld in general.

Well naturally there are certain exceptions and caveats..

If you are trying to go from 5e to Hero6 - that would be a bad idea, and a good way to torture yourself for no good reason.

But going from 5e to say a comparably or even less complex system? Pfft... Easy.

I think because of the great familiarity people actually forget how complex 5e actually is.

Out in the "world" I find it is pulling teeth to get people to learn anything that isn't spoon fed (let alone retain it). I've played D&D with people for years who have not and will not pick up a rulebook. Ever. ...

This is not unusual. It is in fact a normal part of the D&D side of the RPG hobby.

Not worth fretting over.

 

[TwoSix]

I completely disagree with this. Tons of systems that have character advancement that don't need magic to explain it.

By all means, volunteer, remembering my caveat that I specified "D&D-style" games.

 

[dr_ether]

Just a heads up myself and my co-hosts from Darker Days Radio are going to running streamed games of Wrath and Glory (plus I wrote for the new book )

 

[Mournblade94]

IMHO I can walk into any RPG gaming store, throw a rock over my shoulder and hit a random RPG that will have a better system than Traveller, Alternity, and especially HERO ~shudder~.

Just goes to show that tastes vary!

But my point is, I already know those systems, can work with their complexity. What is another system going to give me that warrants the oppurtunity cost of learning it. None of them can get nearly as specific as those three systems I listed. So there are plenty of systems, but why take the oppurtunity cost of learnign them when you have systems that work for you.

I'm primarily a DM. I DM Hero I can DM anything. But it also means I have to acquire rules mastery over another system.