D&D 5E What’s So Great About Medieval Europe?

[Guest 6801328]

I'm just going to say that I've found assertions that authors or publishers should get someone from "X" culture to sign off on a fantasy representation of "X" culture very rarely reflect a realistic goal, or a realistic understanding of how many cultures work. I'm an American, but I'm not expert on Southern culture, or California culture, or Midwest culture. Hell, I moved to upstate NY and thought the people there were weird.

My wife is a person of color, as I understand the term (I doubt she'd apply it to herself). Raised in a non-american country. Her culture (a smaller one that hasn't significantly appeared in a TSR handbook) is rife with prejudices and biases. Rural vs urban. North vs south. East vs west. This naturalized group vs that naturalized group vs another naturalized group vs the indigenous people, who themselves invaded 500 years ago and displaced a previous group. Who's the "expert"? On what? What are their biases?

I'm not saying don't do it, but it's not necessarily as simple as "just find someone versed in the culture".

You (almost) touch on an interesting point: often it is outsiders who are able to see the most clearly, and have the most astute observations.

 

[fearsomepirate]

That is very much the catch-22.

I've seen people on Twitter ask why there are so few afrocentric campaign settings for D&D. The harsh answer is "because there are so few people of African decent working in gaming."

The harsh answer is the same as why there isn't really any English-language equivalent to the Mexican telenovela, the Indian...uh..."epic musical*" or any other leisure activity that is crazy popular somewhere else, but has at best a niche market here: "they wouldn't sell." Cultural exports are difficult to sell, and the more niche they are, the harder they are to break out of their original context and go global with.

Heck, just the fact that most of our leisure activity in America is dominated by mass-produced corporate products you have to buy makes us pretty different from much of the rest of the world.

*I have no idea what the heck to call "Baahubali"

 

[Jester David]

The harsh answer is the same as why there isn't really any English-language equivalent to the Mexican telenovela, the Indian...uh..."epic musical*" or any other leisure activity that is crazy popular somewhere else, but has at best a niche market here: "they wouldn't sell." Cultural exports are difficult to sell, and the more niche they are, they harder they are to break out of their original context and go global with.

Heck, just the fact that most of our leisure activity in America is dominated by mass-produced corporate products you have to buy makes us pretty different from much of the rest of the world.

*I have no idea what the heck to call "Baahubali"

I feakin' LOVED Baahubali.

Every D&D player seriously needs to watch that naughty word.

 

[Argyle King]

There are always exceptions.

But the worst case scenario... the absolute WORST... is that you hire someone less knowledgeable of the culture who has to do research before writing the book.
Only if you hired a person of colour for that job instead of a white person you still have a more diverse writing pool.
And that's still not a bad thing.

I am in favor of diversity and gaining multiple perspectives. Simultaneously, I am not so sure that I agree with intentionally hiring somebody based solely on an aspect not related to the work I would expect them to do. I think that would lead to problems of needing some measurement (which I would feel would be racist) of whether or not someone is authentic enough to count. Am I required to choose the first generation immigrant over a member of a family who has lived in this area for generations? (And, is it arguably racist that I would hire a specific person to do research and more manual labor?) The viewpoints of the latter, while likely different than my own experiences, would also be more Americanized and influenced by Western ideals.

 

[Giltonio_Santos]

Funny thing. Disagreeing with a rule doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

As usual, the burden of proof is on the claimant. It shouldn't be so hard to prove the existence of an unwritten general social rule, as long as it really exists, and is not just wishful thinking from your part.

Also, I'll add that, while I've said before that I have no first-hand experience with US culture, I do consume a lot of US cultural production, and I know who are many of the creatives behind it. If the US does have a general social rule about that, it's the most unobserved social rule of all time, maybe even more so than not picking your nose in public.

From my own observation, this trend on saying that Joe is appropriating my culture when he serves caipirinhas to his guests without understanding what does it mean for people from the region of Jequitinhonha River Valley to taste cachaça after a day of harsh work is just that: a trend. I hope people find something more useful to complain about in the next 10-20 years.

 

[Jester David]

As usual, the burden of proof is on the claimant. It shouldn't be so hard to prove the existence of an unwritten general social rule, as long as it really exists, and is not just wishful thinking from your part.

Well then:

Cultural appropriation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!

www.dictionary.com

cultural appropriation

1. the act of taking or using things from a culture that is not your own…

dictionary.cambridge.org

What's Wrong with Cultural Appropriation? These 9 Answers Reveal Its Harm - Everyday Feminism

If cultural appropriation doesn't seem like a big deal to you, you're missing something big. Here's what you need to know.

everydayfeminism.com

Understanding Why Cultural Appropriation Is Wrong

Cultural appropriation is a hot topic among racial and cultural lines. Explore its meaning, why it's a controversy, and discover how to avoid it.

www.thoughtco.com

 

[fearsomepirate]

Wikipedia also has an entry on False Consciousness; that doesn't mean that Marxist dialectics are now socially normative for us.

 

[Nellisir]

*I have no idea what the heck to call "Baahubali"

Just call it Baahubali. English language don't care. . I learned a new word today!

 

[Giltonio_Santos]

Well then:

You proved the existence of the concept, and I've never disagreed with that. You have yet to prove that this is a general rule observed by society. I still don't think it is. More even so, as I've stated earlier, I don't even think most of society cares about that. I know that I don't. And I say that as a person from mixed ancestry living in a third-world country (not that I care about the concept of "place of speech", but maybe you do).

 

[Son of the Serpent]

You proved the existence of the concept, and I've never disagreed with that. You have yet to prove that this is a general rule observed by society. I still don't think it is. More even so, as I've stated earlier, I don't even think most of society cares about that. I know that I don't. And I say that as a person from mixed ancestry living in a third-world country (not that I care about the concept of "place of speech", but maybe you do).

Preach it